England - Lee Carsley Takes The Reins

[davulsukur]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Not at all a bizarre take on it. 

It's the England manager job and for me he has to be English not foriegn manager. If you don't fine. We have spent time with Foriegn managers to nowhere. 

We have 4 or 5 good candidates to take over from Southampton when the time is right 

What's the benefit of having an English manager over a foreign one?

And with that logic, should Rovers only appoint a manager who's from Blackburn?

[47er]

3 hours ago, ABBEY said:

cant stand the arrogant tosser

TBF he's a lot to be arrogant about ( not that he strikes me as arrogant---seems a good guy).

[riverholmes]

3 hours ago, roverandout said:

Southgate is responsible for alot of things but not the players hiding from responsibility.  They've gone back to fearing wearing the shirt 

I think that the evident fear must have a lot to do with experience and age. I don't think just putting in Eze or Palmer or whoever will make a huge difference as long as there is that psychological insecurity throughout the team.

This England squad is missing experienced leaders. Throw in the fact that the system is experimental and imbalanced, and you have a recipe for under-performance. I keep saying it, but I really think that if the central midfield is ticking, the confidence of the rest of the team will flip and you'll see a completely different side. However, I'm not sure how it's to be done, given that all the options are so youthful and inexperienced.

Edited June 21 by riverholmes

[chaddyrovers]

11 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

What's the benefit of having an English manager over a foreign one?

And with that logic, should Rovers only appoint a manager who's from Blackburn?

They are English. It's the England national team manager job..simple as. Disagree you want but I ain't changing my opinion on this!

[AspRover]

I think that the Phillips comment really shows what's going on in Southgate's head - he had his most successful spell playing 4-2-3-1 with Rice and Phillips and he's absolutely desperately trying to recreate that even though half the players have changed. 

Completely unwilling to adapt those tactics to suit the new lineup, because those were the tactics that got us into a final, so he has to find a player to be the new Phillips rather than letting a new starter play to their strengths.

It's 100% Mowbray 'he needs to learn our system from Ritchie Smallwood' 

Absolutely wild

[davulsukur]

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

They are English. It's the England national team manager job..simple as. Disagree you want but I ain't changing my opinion on this!

So, there are no benefits then?

And should Rovers only appoint a manager from Blackburn?

[arbitro]

If Southgate is bemoaning the lack of a Kalvin Phillips why didn't he actually put him in the squad. He hasn't played much football but Shaw hasn't and he's there and Maguire had hardly played and would have played had he not been injured. 

[MarkBRFC71]

That's the difference between club and international football - at club level you can have a 'system' and buy players specifically to fit into it; at international level you have to be able to adapt the system to fit the best available players, or pick/play players that best fit your system and if that means leaving out a brilliant player because there's a better one for the role (eg Bellingham vs Foden) then you have to have the bollocks to do it.

What you must NOT do (and Southgate is falling into the oft-repeated trap) is shoehorn what's considered to be the best players into unfamiliar roles.

Edited June 21 by MarkBRFC71

[Upside Down]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Not at all a bizarre take on it. 

It's the England manager job and for me he has to be English not foriegn manager. If you don't fine. We have spent time with Foriegn managers to nowhere. 

We have 4 or 5 good candidates to take over from Southampton when the time is right 

I agree with chaddy on this one. The manager should be from the country they're managing.

[47er]

I don't think Southgate is a top manager. I think he'll be found out in the Premier League too if he gets a job.

[matt83]

Just now, 47er said:

I don't think Southgate is a top manager. I think he'll be found out in the Premier League too if he gets a job.

If it was announced he was leaving England after this tournament (hopefully during it) and taking over at rovers I’d be unimpressed with my rovers hat on.

[Dreams of 1995]

I still don’t understand why he doesn’t go for 3 at the back. For me, this solves this issue of shoe horning players in. Saka started as a LWB and he’s our only natural left footer who can do that. It just seems like an easy decision 

[Silas]

I can't think of a time when it has been so universally agreed that the England manager is getting things massively wrong. 

Maybe playing Scholes on the left wing comes to mind. 

But usually, there's 2 sets of opinions, people arguing either side etc. 

It feels here pretty much everyone agrees on 2 things - he has the wrong players out on the pitch, and the wrong tactics are being used. 

Very frustrating to go on like this game after game.

He's also coming across as pretty arrogant in the interviews. Which is odd, considering the performances. 

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Why is Gallagher hapless? Good box to box player. Pressing the ball, put his foot in. 

Not English. I have said the England manager should be English. I don't think Klopp would suit international football management 

He cant pass a ball. And he again leaves us imbalanced. We need someone beside Rice who can sit in and who can pass. From limited options, Wharton stands out or even Mainoo.

4 hours ago, roverandout said:

Our supposed weakest position.  Centreback has been our strongest so far this tournament 

We have no left backs (Shaw was a waste of a plane ticket) in the squad. Thats our weakest position.

Central midfield is weak too. In attack we have loads of quality but most want to do the same thing.

[Herbie6590]

5 hours ago, matt83 said:

Before the tournament I thought our chances were similar to Man U winning the fa cup. Let’s say Citeh- France, lpool - zee Germans, Arsenal - Spain all better but we could give any a game but also lose to some random outfit. I’m downgrading our chances to that of Bournemouth.

I’m not aware of a manager being sacked mid tournament but it’s the only hope I have left. Going nowhere fast with Pizza Hut boy. 

Ivory Coast sacked their manager in the middle of the last AFCON.

They went on to win it. 🤨

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2024/feb/07/football-managers-sacked-mid-tournament-and-hammered-hosts-knowledge

[jim mk2]

Southgate showed his limitations in the last Euro final against Italy,  a game England should never have lost after going a goal up in front of their home crowd in their own national stadium when he didn't have a clue how to change the game or counter a limited but motivated Italy team and a tactically astute manager.  Six months later Italy failed to quality for the World Cup when England again failed to get past a quality opponent. Southgate should have been replaced then. 

[Herbie6590]

1 hour ago, Upside Down said:

I agree with chaddy on this one. The manager should be from the country they're managing.

There’s a strong argument to exempt developing countries from such a restriction. 
 

Insert your own gag here about England being a developing country…

[DE.]

38 minutes ago, Silas said:

I can't think of a time when it has been so universally agreed that the England manager is getting things massively wrong. 

Maybe playing Scholes on the left wing comes to mind. 

But usually, there's 2 sets of opinions, people arguing either side etc. 

It feels here pretty much everyone agrees on 2 things - he has the wrong players out on the pitch, and the wrong tactics are being used. 

Very frustrating to go on like this game after game.

He's also coming across as pretty arrogant in the interviews. Which is odd, considering the performances. 

I don't think I've seen this level of discontent across the England fanbase since the 2010 WC. Even in 2014 when we bombed out in the group stages it was more a shrug of the shoulders, as many didn't have confidence that we were better than Italy or Uruguay anyway, and fully expected us to go home early. 

This time around we've come into the tournament as huge favourites, although that seems to be based more on the theoretical ability of the starting eleven than how they have realistically played as a team over the past year or so. It feels like everyone can see Southgate's time is up, even those who have previously backed him and consider his record a good one. Personally I'd say we've wasted the chance to win something during a time period where numerous big countries have had a dip, but I can accept the alternative argument that Southgate has got England further than other managers and it's potentially churlish to try and diminish those achievements with theoretical external weaknesses.

Regardless, things feel stale now, and as with many managers who stay on a bit too long he's lost the plot in regards to team selection and general coaching. In fact he's arguably just lost the plot as a whole, if his ridiculous Kalvin Phillips quote is anything to go by. Everyone should be concerned by Kane's admission that the players literally don't know what they are meant to be doing in certain situations. If those basics aren't being applied in training then we're far past the point of no return for Southgate. 

The fact we're top of the group, almost certain to qualify, and yet there is still major disappointment points to there being a real undercurrent of disillusionment relating to Southgate's management - on pitch, anyway. I think we can all see that the current performance levels - going back quite a long time now - will not get us very far. We're miles off the better teams in this tournament, despite having a very talented group of players at our disposal.

It's one of those situations where it's obvious the manager's time is up. Everyone knows it - the players included. But we're stuck with him and his staff, and we're going to have to watch our team play like a bunch of cloggers until we meet a decent team who will dispatch us with relative ease. 

I'd love to see what a Kieran McKenna, or an Eddie Howe, or a Jurgen Klopp (won't happen, but hypothetically) could do with this team. The potential is there, but under the current manager that potentially is massively capped. That much is clear, and it's intensely frustrating.

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Not at all a bizarre take on it. 

It's the England manager job and for me he has to be English not foriegn manager. If you don't fine. We have spent time with Foriegn managers to nowhere. 

We have 4 or 5 good candidates to take over from Southampton when the time is right 

So, let's do a hypothetical. If there was a manager who wanted to manage England, had a terrific track record at international football, and was almost certain to deliver success, but he was foreign...you'd still want an English manager instead?

[AspRover]

I know that to many on here womens football is at best an irrelevance but Serena Wiegman as a Dutch manager of an England side has at least won a major tournament.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

51 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He cant pass a ball. And he again leaves us imbalanced. We need someone beside Rice who can sit in and who can pass. From limited options, Wharton stands out or even Mainoo.

We have no left backs (Shaw was a waste of a plane ticket) in the squad. Thats our weakest position.

Central midfield is weak too. In attack we have loads of quality but most want to do the same thing.

Gallagher’s also a card on legs.

[RevidgeBlue]

29 minutes ago, DE. said:

I don't think I've seen this level of discontent across the England fanbase since the 2010 WC. Even in 2014 when we bombed out in the group stages it was more a shrug of the shoulders, as many didn't have confidence that we were better than Italy or Uruguay anyway, and fully expected us to go home early. 

This time around we've come into the tournament as huge favourites, although that seems to be based more on the theoretical ability of the starting eleven than how they have realistically played as a team over the past year or so. It feels like everyone can see Southgate's time is up, even those who have previously backed him and consider his record a good one. Personally I'd say we've wasted the chance to win something during a time period where numerous big countries have had a dip, but I can accept the alternative argument that Southgate has got England further than other managers and it's potentially churlish to try and diminish those achievements with theoretical external weaknesses.

Regardless, things feel stale now, and as with many managers who stay on a bit too long he's lost the plot in regards to team selection and general coaching. In fact he's arguably just lost the plot as a whole, if his ridiculous Kalvin Phillips quote is anything to go by. Everyone should be concerned by Kane's admission that the players literally don't know what they are meant to be doing in certain situations. If those basics aren't being applied in training then we're far past the point of no return for Southgate. 

The fact we're top of the group, almost certain to qualify, and yet there is still major disappointment points to there being a real undercurrent of disillusionment relating to Southgate's management - on pitch, anyway. I think we can all see that the current performance levels - going back quite a long time now - will not get us very far. We're miles off the better teams in this tournament, despite having a very talented group of players at our disposal.

It's one of those situations where it's obvious the manager's time is up. Everyone knows it - the players included. But we're stuck with him and his staff, and we're going to have to watch our team play like a bunch of cloggers until we meet a decent team who will dispatch us with relative ease. 

I'd love to see what a Kieran McKenna, or an Eddie Howe, or a Jurgen Klopp (won't happen, but hypothetically) could do with this team. The potential is there, but under the current manager that potentially is massively capped. That much is clear, and it's intensely frustrating.

Good post, totally agree his time is up; no-one apart from the FA really wanted him to carry on after relative failure in the Euro Final and he hummed and haa'd before eventually deciding to limp on and as you say things now look exceptionally stale as a result.

Imo it looks like there's something seriously amiss within the camp, after sitting through  two games of walking football from our point of view the one incident that annoyed me the most was last night when Pickford charged up to the half way line to demand the ball off one of the centre halves. At that point you naturally assume he's going to wave the defender forward and launch the ball himself. But no, he passed the ball three yards sideways to the CH and retreated back to his goal. I was left screaming at the screen "What's the point in that?"

For me the players aren't buying into this at all so far and don't seem to have any belief or enthusiasm for what they're being asked to do or how they're being asked to play. The only hope imo is that there's a players revolt and they decide to completely ignore the wet one and go out and try and tear the opposition a new one and see where it takes us.

[sharpysharps86]

Awful performance yesterday, and the Kalvin Phillips comment from Southgate is as bizarre as it gets. Almost Steve Kean levels of delusion there! What must Wharton and Mainoo be thinking with that comment. They've both proven that they can do it at a top level. One of them deserves the nod in the next game.

Only Pickford and perhaps Guehi came out of yesterday with any real credit. Bellingham absolutely non existent.

Southgate has shot himself in the foot by not taking a proper left back who's match fit. Having Shaw there is a waste of a place given his injury troubles. Surely someone like Colwill is better than putting a square peg in a round hole.

Huge changes need to be made for the Slovenia game. I'd be looking to do something like the following:
 

                     Pickford

Walker    Stones   Guehi    Trippier

            Wharton       Rice

                 Bellingham

    Saka          Kane       Gordon

Although not happy about Trippier being at left back, he's left himself with little choice. I can't see him switching to a back 3 either. Having Gordon in there means he and Trippier on the same flank and you'd hope with a decent bit of understanding.

Harry Kane needs to be told to never drop deep. He does it far too often and it completely destroys any attacking counter attacking threat we may have. I'd go as far as dropping him for Watkins or Toney but I can't see Southgate doing that.

[Silas]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

I don't think I've seen this level of discontent across the England fanbase since the 2010 WC. Even in 2014 when we bombed out in the group stages it was more a shrug of the shoulders, as many didn't have confidence that we were better than Italy or Uruguay anyway, and fully expected us to go home early. 

This time around we've come into the tournament as huge favourites, although that seems to be based more on the theoretical ability of the starting eleven than how they have realistically played as a team over the past year or so. It feels like everyone can see Southgate's time is up, even those who have previously backed him and consider his record a good one. Personally I'd say we've wasted the chance to win something during a time period where numerous big countries have had a dip, but I can accept the alternative argument that Southgate has got England further than other managers and it's potentially churlish to try and diminish those achievements with theoretical external weaknesses.

Regardless, things feel stale now, and as with many managers who stay on a bit too long he's lost the plot in regards to team selection and general coaching. In fact he's arguably just lost the plot as a whole, if his ridiculous Kalvin Phillips quote is anything to go by. Everyone should be concerned by Kane's admission that the players literally don't know what they are meant to be doing in certain situations. If those basics aren't being applied in training then we're far past the point of no return for Southgate. 

The fact we're top of the group, almost certain to qualify, and yet there is still major disappointment points to there being a real undercurrent of disillusionment relating to Southgate's management - on pitch, anyway. I think we can all see that the current performance levels - going back quite a long time now - will not get us very far. We're miles off the better teams in this tournament, despite having a very talented group of players at our disposal.

It's one of those situations where it's obvious the manager's time is up. Everyone knows it - the players included. But we're stuck with him and his staff, and we're going to have to watch our team play like a bunch of cloggers until we meet a decent team who will dispatch us with relative ease. 

I'd love to see what a Kieran McKenna, or an Eddie Howe, or a Jurgen Klopp (won't happen, but hypothetically) could do with this team. The potential is there, but under the current manager that potentially is massively capped. That much is clear, and it's intensely frustrating.

Saw this yesterday. Think he's one of the YouTube podcasters, that I'm never a huge fan of, but tbf he sums up situation pretty well:

 

[rigger]

59 minutes ago, AspRover said:

I know that to many on here womens football is at best an irrelevance but Serena Wiegman as a Dutch manager of an England side has at least won a major tournament.

And your point is ?