England - Lee Carsley Takes The Reins

[roversfan99]

4 hours ago, Forever Blue said:

The only time we’ve reached major finals has been with an Englishman in charge. Capello and SGE were nowhere near. I hope we never employ a foreigner again as England manager. 

I dont get this warped argument as if because 2 specific individuals failed, they represent the potential success/failure of anyone who is foreign. As if foreign managers are all robots who dont differ from manager to manager.

We have only had 2 foreign managers out of god knows how many and is it only 2 finals weve been to, so probability wise, they are almost certain to be English. If you had 15-20 raffle tickets and I had 2, and there were only 2 prizes, you would likely win them both.

If you dont want to consider anyone foreign out of principle, fine. But dont use a warped argument to suggest that opening the door to managers of any nationality would automatically lead to failures. The 2 that underachieved did so as Eriksson and Capello, not as foreign manager 1 and foreign manager 2.

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Capella failed for many of reasons. Was his wages worth what we paid him? Why do we always have to go overseas for foreign manager? Why can't we employ an Englishman and back him. 

What do you mean always? Weve done it twice.

I never said he has to be foreign but if we are more open minded we have more selection to choose from.

You tried your best to muster up the best possible list of English coaches. One has never managed senior football, one failed badly in his last job, one has a very strange CV including 2 jobs in womens football, the Canada job and an MLS job, and I cant imagine you are an expert on him. That leaves Howe who maybe could do ok but currently has a big Premier League job, and O'Neil who has done ok but the England job, really?!

[joey_big_nose]

In the spirit of making changes I wonder if we might might give Wharton a go next game. Hes got a left foot, would balance a midfield three of Bellingham and Rice, does what we need in terms of looking after the ball and passing it forward and decent at pressing and winning the ball. Plus Guehi from Palace has has been our best player dispelling the idea you need players with Champions League experience...

Would probably mean Foden would be dropped though, and Southgate would have to go for him ahead of Mainoo... But just got a feeling...

Edited June 22 by joey_big_nose

[Forever Blue]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont get this warped argument as if because 2 specific individuals failed, they represent the potential success/failure of anyone who is foreign. As if foreign managers are all robots who dont differ from manager to manager.

We have only had 2 foreign managers out of god knows how many and is it only 2 finals weve been to, so probability wise, they are almost certain to be English. If you had 15-20 raffle tickets and I had 2, and there were only 2 prizes, you would likely win them both.

If you dont want to consider anyone foreign out of principle, fine. But dont use a warped argument to suggest that opening the door to managers of any nationality would automatically lead to failures. The 2 that underachieved did so as Eriksson and Capello, not as foreign manager 1 and foreign manager 2.

 

Warped? Oh dear.

And I didn’t say that all foreign managers would fail. You have this strange ability to put words in posters mouths and then argue against it. I think there’s a name for that. 

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

Warped? Oh dear.

And I didn’t say that all foreign managers would fail. You have this strange ability to put words in posters mouths and then argue against it. I think there’s a name for that. 

But its implied when you are saying that weve never got to a final with a foreign manager. There are 2 seperate arguments. The one about preferring one out of principle, I sort of get. But its when people start suggesting that that an Englishman would be superior in terms of results that I am not having. 

[Forever Blue]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

But its implied when you are saying that weve never got to a final with a foreign manager. There are 2 seperate arguments. The one about preferring one out of principle, I sort of get. But its when people start suggesting that that an Englishman would be superior in terms of results that I am not having. 

It’s wasn’t implied at all. I just said we’d tried it twice and twice it had failed. If I implied anything it was getting a well respected foreign manager in to manage England is no guarantee of success. 

[simongarnerisgod]

enjoyable game between georgia and the czechs,terrible miss right at the end🤔

[roverandout]

3 against 1. We would have passed it back to midfield then defence then keeper 

[roversfan99]

22 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

It’s wasn’t implied at all. I just said we’d tried it twice and twice it had failed. If I implied anything it was getting a well respected foreign manager in to manage England is no guarantee of success. 

Certainly not a guarantee, as with any appointment. But much more likely to find someone good if we widen the net and dont rule out anyone foreign.

[Forever Blue]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Certainly not a guarantee, as with any appointment. But much more likely to find someone good if we widen the net and dont rule out anyone foreign.

Im ruling out a foreign manager simply because they’re foreign. It’s called a National team for a reason. 

[Claytons Left Boot]

My lad and a few of his mates at the Georgia game today. Flying the flag.

[roversfan99]

57 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

Im ruling out a foreign manager simply because they’re foreign. It’s called a National team for a reason. 

Thats fair enough. As long as there is an acceptance that you arent going to necessarily get the best man by refusing to consider most managers.

[wilsdenrover]

Is Ronaldo winning yet?

[Penwortham Blue]

1 hour ago, Claytons Left Boot said:

My lad and a few of his mates at the Georgia game today. Flying the flag.

Brilliant, had many a good night at the Windmill in the early 80’s. 

[Exiled_Rover]

40 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Is Ronaldo winning yet?

That's a bloody talented Portuguese team. 

[Claytons Left Boot]

44 minutes ago, Penwortham Blue said:

Brilliant, had many a good night at the Windmill in the early 80’s. 

That’s one of his mates, who’s originally from there. We’re Darreners. 

[Dreyski]

5 hours ago, roverandout said:

Please bring back the likes of Trevor brooking Alan hansen Jimmy Hill etc and get rid of plebs like jenus and Danny Murphy 

I think bringing back Hill would be a bit of a stretch…

[Dreyski]

Suicidal defending for two of the goals, I think the Türkiye goalkeeper was changed from the first game?

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You tried your best to muster up the best possible list of English coaches. One has never managed senior football, one failed badly in his last job, one has a very strange CV including 2 jobs in womens football, the Canada job and an MLS job, and I cant imagine you are an expert on him. That leaves Howe who maybe could do ok but currently has a big Premier League job, and O'Neil who has done ok but the England job, really?!

I didn't try to muster up the best possible list of English managers cos these names are well known and obviously. 

Herdman did a good job at Canada and why does it matters he managed a women team? Why is it such a big issue for yourself? 

I think O'Neil did very well at Bournemouth and kept them up and same as Wolves despite big cut backs there. 

I will ask you this very simple and straight forward question, You are solely in charge of bringing in the replacement for Southgate who has decide to leave the job so who are you appointing then please? 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Certainly not a guarantee, as with any appointment. But much more likely to find someone good if we widen the net and dont rule out anyone foreign.

Why does it? why should we consider any foreign manager for the England National team manager job? 

1 hour ago, Forever Blue said:

Im ruling out a foreign manager simply because they’re foreign. It’s called a National team for a reason. 

exactly 

[roversfan99]

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I didn't try to muster up the best possible list of English managers cos these names are well known and obviously. 

Herdman did a good job at Canada and why does it matters he managed a women team? Why is it such a big issue for yourself? 

I think O'Neil did very well at Bournemouth and kept them up and same as Wolves despite big cut backs there. 

I will ask you this very simple and straight forward question, You are solely in charge of bringing in the replacement for Southgate who has decide to leave the job so who are you appointing then please? 

Why does it? why should we consider any foreign manager for the England National team manager job? 

exactly 

Why should we close off loads of potential options out of principle?

You are twisting my words by saying that Herdman's spell as a womens manager is an issue. Obviously it isnt. But hes a total randomer who nobody has heard of because his CV is so limited.

I dont know who I would appoint, your point wasnt about individuals. I merely said that closing off potential managers who arent English is massively reducing the options available, proven by the sorry list of potential applicants that you mustered up. But someone like Thomas Tuchel for example would be a far better shout than an MLS no mark, a total novice or Gary O'Neil.

[Norn Iron Rover]

7 hours ago, wilsdenrover said:

Cooper is Welsh

McKenna is English but represented NI at under 21s

Martin is English but played for Scotland

So does that count as 3, 4, or 5…

Sorry to be pedantic but McKenna was born in England and raised in NI so we (NI) are claiming him 😁

[ABBEY]

7 hours ago, Mercer said:

You contradict yourself.

Since Sir Alf, we have backed about 15 English managers and none delivered a tournament.  

Reportedly, Southgate is on £5million / year - that is some feckin backing and for what!?!?

Capello failed because his disciplined Italian approach was too harsh for our namby-pamby overrated and overpaid 'stars'.  Whilst conversely, I would suggest Sven was as dynamic as a wet blanket and he was too soft on our prima donnas.

I am pretty certain we would get Klopp for £5million a year and he would deliver passion, excitement and most probably success.

We have had just 2 foreign managers and I think it's time we rolled the dice again.  I want an England team that exudes passion, excitement and success and not, IMO, the stale, fecked-up mess we are witnessing.

GET THAT TOSSER AND I BECOME WELSH.. HORRIBLE BIG HEADED TURD

[ABBEY]

47 minutes ago, Dreyski said:

Suicidal defending for two of the goals, I think the Türkiye goalkeeper was changed from the first game?

Pearsapha 

[RoversTilliDie]

Ian Wright agrees with what I have been saying, play Adam Wharton against Slovenia, can he be any more average than what we have seen so far. I would have Watkins and Wharton in the starting 11 then rotate later on in the game. Give Slovenia something they have'nt done their homework on, mix it up a bit.

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Why should we close off loads of potential options out of principle?

Cos its the England national team manager job. Not a club manager job. Clue is in the title of the job. 

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

You are twisting my words by saying that Herdman's spell as a womens manager is an issue. Obviously it isnt. But hes a total randomer who nobody has heard of because his CV is so limited.

I'm not twisting nothing, its yourself you has mentioned his time working in Women football like it was a problem for yourself. 

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont know who I would appoint, your point wasnt about individuals. I merely said that closing off potential managers who arent English is massively reducing the options available, proven by the sorry list of potential applicants that you mustered up. But someone like Thomas Tuchel for example would be a far better shout than an MLS no mark, a total novice or Gary O'Neil.

You can't even a such simple question yet again. 

Who is the total novice I have suggested? Lee Carsley? been managing different teams for England at different levels 

 

[RoversTilliDie]

5 minutes ago, ABBEY said:

GET THAT TOSSER AND I BECOME WELSH.. HORRIBLE BIG HEADED TURD

Bobby Robson was close, missed penalties let him down for a final.