England - Lee Carsley Takes The Reins

[AndyB]

4 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

They can’t really complain. Three games, 2 goals,  one an own goal and the other a really massive deflection on a shot going right down the keepers throat. I thought Hungary were really poor. They played like a team that was already through instead of a team desperate for a win.

The Scots just aren’t producing the players anymore. It’s interesting to see that the England team has lots of players with immigrant backgrounds, as have most Western European teams, whilst the Scots don’t appear to have any.

 

The population of Scotland is 95% white and most of the population with an immigrant background are Asian, so not that surprising. I think the only player with that background was Che Adams who qualifies for Scotland because his grandmother was Scottish. 

[Upside Down]

36 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

They can’t really complain. Three games, 2 goals,  one an own goal and the other a really massive deflection on a shot going right down the keepers throat. I thought Hungary were really poor. They played like a team that was already through instead of a team desperate for a win.

The Scots just aren’t producing the players anymore. It’s interesting to see that the England team has lots of players with immigrant backgrounds, as have most Western European teams, whilst the Scots don’t appear to have any.

 

With that kind of record their manager will be in contention for the Real Madrid job.

[jim mk2]

Go back to the 1960s - 1990s and many of Britain's best players were Scots so why aren't they producing top class players now? Any Scots in the house? 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

16 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Go back to the 1960s - 1990s and many of Britain's best players were Scots so why aren't they producing top class players now? Any Scots in the house? 

Most of the top English teams had at least a couple of Scots in their first 11. Loads of players that hardly got a cap then would walk into their current team.

[Upside Down]

The late 90s saw an influx of foreign talent into the UK. But Scotland went really really shit really really fast. They went from opening the world cup against Brasil to getting pumped by the Faroe Islands in the space of just a few years.

The game also changed a lot so being a hard man grafter that could play a bit wasn't quite enough anymore.

Having a Mickey Mouse two team league won't be doing any favours for their youth development either.

[joey_big_nose]

19 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

The late 90s saw an influx of foreign talent into the UK. But Scotland went really really shit really really fast. They went from opening the world cup against Brasil to getting pumped by the Faroe Islands in the space of just a few years.

The game also changed a lot so being a hard man grafter that could play a bit wasn't quite enough anymore.

Having a Mickey Mouse two team league won't be doing any favours for their youth development either.

The gold standard to emulate is Croatia... Smaller population than Scotland but absolutely sensational record. Their league is considerably more tinpot than Scotlands. Totally dominated by Zagreb and Split, very little money, no immigration. They must be doing something right. Not sure what it is though.

Also Scotland do have a major immigration problem. They're desperate for immigration for the aging economy but cant make it happen as 1) they don't control immigration as a devolved power so cant incentivise it 2) UK is a single internal market where Scotland is one of the poorest regions so immigrants gravitate to England.

Will be interesting to see what happens in Ireland. Economy is booming loads of migrants. Reckon their team will get better and better over the coming years. Thats the trend anyway.

Edited June 24 by joey_big_nose

[joey_big_nose]

26 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Most of the top English teams had at least a couple of Scots in their first 11. Loads of players that hardly got a cap then would walk into their current team.

Its pretty amazing they never got out of the groups in the seventies and early eighties.... So many good players. Very confusing. I guess the Euros was a tiny competition then so very difficult, but they qualified for all the world cups but bombed out.

[RevidgeBlue]

Strange how almost every side at the Tournament, even the so called "minnows" have been playing some fabulous football apart from the two UK based participants who have both stunk the place out. Both sides seem to be lumbered with extremely negative if not downright cowardly managers.

As for Scotland, I know Clarke has a limited pool from which to pick from yada yada but Scotland were absolutely dire. They didn't turn up against Germany, treated what effectively was a "must win" game against Switzerland as a "must not lose" game and in what was definitely "a must win" game last night by 90 minutes they hadn't registered a single effort on target and only registered 3 in total over the 3 games.

Really poor, irrespective of their relative status and I didn't think it was a stonewall penalty either. Whilst you've seen them given, I thought that instead of concentrating on trying to score the Scottish play was certainly looking for the penalty and was waiting for contact and contributed to the tangle.

Always refreshing to see them "home before the postcards" as the Doc used to say. That said had they played well and progressed I'd have been pleased for them.

[Lancaster Rover]

Moyes raised a good point last night re the state of grassroots football in terms of qualified coaches and available all weather facilities in Scotland. It's a similar problem in this country although the weather isn't as bad here and certainly not further south. 

[RevidgeBlue]

Really disappointed to hear Harry Kane's comments this morning about Shearer and Lineker, I previously had him down as being more grounded and a cut above the average modern day player.

The latter two, apart from both being exceptional players in their pomp are paid football pundits. Are they only allowed to say how brilliant Harry and Co are even when that obviously hasn't been the case and it's not what they believe?

Lineker's criticism of Kane's performances in particular was I thought very constructive and well argued. As a former striker of some repute he itemised the things Kane has been doing wrong and suggested tweaks he could bring to his game to rectify things.

Grow up Harry and stop being a cry baby. And P.S. Shearer and Lineker "haven't won nothing" unlike yourself - they've won plenty.

Edited June 24 by RevidgeBlue

[Lancaster Rover]

Harry seems to be of the opinion that he's a superior player to Shearer, whereas I think anyone with half a brain or a knowledge of football outside of the last 5 years would politely tell him he's a long way from the truth.

[AndyB]

Maybe Scotland need to take a leaf out of the Reublic of Ireland's book under Jack Charlton.  Find some decent players not quite good enough to play for England but with Scottish grandparents.

[Upside Down]

12 minutes ago, Lancaster Rover said:

Harry seems to be of the opinion that he's a superior player to Shearer, whereas I think anyone with half a brain or a knowledge of football outside of the last 5 years would politely tell him he's a long way from the truth.

He's a long way from being fit to lace Shearer's boots.

[joey_big_nose]

16 minutes ago, AndyB said:

Maybe Scotland need to take a leaf out of the Reublic of Ireland's book under Jack Charlton.  Find some decent players not quite good enough to play for England but with Scottish grandparents.

I think Scotland have been doing that for a while... McTominey, Gunn, Conway, Cooper in the current squad all English.

The challenge is anyone really good (e.g. Gordon at the moment) who has a genuine chance at England will wait to get a call up even if theyre on the fringe of the team.

[Mattyblue]

92-97 Shearer or Kane, aye ok 😁

[rigger]

2 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Go back to the 1960s - 1990s and many of Britain's best players were Scots so why aren't they producing top class players now? Any Scots in the house? 

Most of the scots players from that period were both aggressive and physical. Rule changes have taken most of those abilities out of the game, so those same players would be a liability with todays refs.

[chaddyrovers]

 

 

[Adam C]

2 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

The gold standard to emulate is Croatia... Smaller population than Scotland but absolutely sensational record. Their league is considerably more tinpot than Scotlands. Totally dominated by Zagreb and Split, very little money, no immigration. They must be doing something right. Not sure what it is though.

Also Scotland do have a major immigration problem. They're desperate for immigration for the aging economy but cant make it happen as 1) they don't control immigration as a devolved power so cant incentivise it 2) UK is a single internal market where Scotland is one of the poorest regions so immigrants gravitate to England.

Will be interesting to see what happens in Ireland. Economy is booming loads of migrants. Reckon their team will get better and better over the coming years. Thats the trend anyway.

I have a Croatian colleague and I asked him the same question. 

He says football is massive in Croatia so everyone plays it with no other team sport anywhere near as popular. The big clubs have an excellent scouting network and as soon as a youngster shows any talent then Zagreb or Hajduk snap them up and get them into a proper training setup. He said the youth system at those two clubs is excellent and there is a good pathway to the first team as the league is of a low standard. Added to that all the big European clubs have scouts in Croatia, so any good league players are quickly signed up for one of the top leagues where they continue their development at the highest level. 

Comparing this to Scotland I can’t see why they don’t produce players of a similar quality. I suppose rugby is popular in Scotland so good youngsters could end up playing it rather than football. I’m guessing the youth system at rangers and Celtic isn’t particularly good as they seem to sign a lot of foreign players and we don’t much hear about the next big thing coming through in Scotland. 

Ireland is a special case imo as there’s so much more competition here between sports - Gaelic, hurling, football and rugby are all very popular, and I’d say football is possibly the poorest supported. The youth system here is atrocious and chronically underfunded. Add to that any talented kid coming through might find himself playing for England if he’s particularly good a la grealish and Rice. 
 

edit: for me the real gold standard is Uruguay. Similarly tiny population but incredibly successful at international level. There always seems to be at least one world class Uruguayan player somewhere in the world. 

Edited June 24 by Adam C

[RevidgeBlue]

55 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

 

Predictable and depressing.

[K-Hod]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

 

No, I don’t. The most stubborn man on the planet. 

[MarkBRFC71]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

 

No.

[roverandout]

Southgate is clueless.  Sooner he is gone the better. He's got zero imagination.  He's going to reck our best chance in a long time of winning something 

[Displaced Rover]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

 

The FA should sack him on the spot before kick off if that's the only change when he goes to submit his team sheet.

[roverandout]

Its pathetic.  He's got no vision.  He's got our most talented generation in years and doesn't know how to handle them. He goes to default (Gallagher as an example) when he is faced with adversity.  He did well at 2018 world cup because there weren't a great deal of options.  Its like going into a shop to by something u want when there are no alternatives but going into a huge store wheres there's lots of choice and having no idea which to choose. The players need to revolt against him and decide the tactics themselves.  I've been a big defender of his but it's clear his time is up.  Wharton Gordon and Palmer should be heavily involved and its a effing crime they've not had a single minute 

[Blow-in]

2 hours ago, Adam C said:

I have a Croatian colleague and I asked him the same question. 

He says football is massive in Croatia so everyone plays it with no other team sport anywhere near as popular. The big clubs have an excellent scouting network and as soon as a youngster shows any talent then Zagreb or Hajduk snap them up and get them into a proper training setup. He said the youth system at those two clubs is excellent and there is a good pathway to the first team as the league is of a low standard. Added to that all the big European clubs have scouts in Croatia, so any good league players are quickly signed up for one of the top leagues where they continue their development at the highest level. 

Comparing this to Scotland I can’t see why they don’t produce players of a similar quality. I suppose rugby is popular in Scotland so good youngsters could end up playing it rather than football. I’m guessing the youth system at rangers and Celtic isn’t particularly good as they seem to sign a lot of foreign players and we don’t much hear about the next big thing coming through in Scotland. 

Ireland is a special case imo as there’s so much more competition here between sports - Gaelic, hurling, football and rugby are all very popular, and I’d say football is possibly the poorest supported. The youth system here is atrocious and chronically underfunded. Add to that any talented kid coming through might find himself playing for England if he’s particularly good a la grealish and Rice. 
 

edit: for me the real gold standard is Uruguay. Similarly tiny population but incredibly successful at international level. There always seems to be at least one world class Uruguayan player somewhere in the world. 

All good points, the main ones being huge competition in Ireland for sports with Garlic games.

The abysmal running of the FAI. Huge corruption meaning what little money the govt gave them was misappropriated. Just look at the farcical search for a manager 6 months in and they are going to end up giving it to John O'Shea by default. What sort of mandate does that give him to make changes? And what message is that to young players coming through?

Glad we are not at the tournament as I would be embarrassed.