England - Lee Carsley Takes The Reins

[Bohinen1983]

I said right at the start I thought this England team was massively over-rated.  I stand by that.  It's an unbalanced mess.

Having several very good no 10's doesn't make a good team: Foden, Bellingham,  Palmer, Kane, even Eze all like to occupy the 10 position.

You've got the ineffective Foden on one wing and then the sluggish Saka on the other- who also likes to cut inside and you're looking like a disjointed, congested mess.

Then you throw in a defence that and centre midfield that don't like to move the ball forward at any speed and you become very, very easy to defend against.

I said I thought we'd struggle to get past the QF's still do. Switzerland are a better team than us.

For me we need someone in front of the back four that can progress the ball forwards.  Our man, Wharton turned the game in his last performance (albeit a friendly).  He, along with pace out wide and a partner upfront for Kane is what we're missing.

Go three at the back:   

GK: Pickford
DC: Walker
DC: Stones
DC: Gomez

LWB: Saka
RWB:  Trent or Gordon
CDM: Wharton (Deep Lying Playmaker)
CM:  Rice
CM: Bellingham
ST: Kane
ST: Watkins

I'd have my wingbacks more as wingers. When defending the back three slides across to the side being attacked- So Walker becomes your right back, Stones and Gomez your centre halves, Saka fills in at left back- perhaps his height and poor ability in the air would be a problem, but I think we'd at least be posing problems going forwards.

 

[Gav]

Unbeaten, into the Quarter finals, nothing else matters. 

The euphoria of Jude's goal hitting the back of the net last night is why we are all football fans, nothing like it, tremendous. 

You need luck to win tournament football, we had a huge slice of it last night, we can win this. 

 

[joey_big_nose]

Given the suspensions and injuries looks like we will have to go to 3 at the back?

Wonder if we could go back to how we played at WC 2018 and ask Palmer to do the Stirling/Son role and run beyond Kane?

                                 Pickering

                 Walker.    Stones.   Konsa

TAA.     Bellingham   Rice.   Foden    Saka

                             Palmer.    Kane.  

 

Feels like it could work? We've got a whole week to prepare and it's a system we have used previously so feels doable.

Edited July 1 by joey_big_nose

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

All I know is if we pick the same players in the same formation as the last four games we’ll get the same sort of performance. Something has to change.

[AllRoverAsia]

Bellingham's goal involved great skill by him.

It also involved Walker taking a basic long throw and getting the ball into the area where a bit of luck, a deflection or a simple nod on can produce the goods as in this case. 

But an "iconic" goal?

It was a very good goal that saved national embarassment in the first knockout stage.

For the winner Eze's complete miskick fortunately bounced on to Toney's head and on to Kane who then actually was in the right place to easily nod in.

I posted earlier in the thread that will still had a ticket in the lottery. We still have that ticket and I'm not too upset at playing poorly whilst winning. I'm ok with that all the way through to our lifting the trophy.

I have seen real "iconic' England goals live. 3 by a guy called Hurst and 1 by a guy called Peters.

Over 32 million TV viewers in the UK saw the same.

Edited July 1 by AllRoverAsia

[roverandout]

Portugal were mud on the way to winning euro 16. No one remembers how bad they played.  France were pretty average on their way to winning 2018. Even Argentina didn't look particularly impressive at the last world cup 

[Ianrally]

And Sir Geoff didn’t run and mouth off to the crowd either. The difference in how humble the players were then compared to now is mind blowing. 

[Admiral Nelsen]

The players would have (deservedly) got absolute pelters if they were knocked out, so I don't mind them going a bit mad over a last minute equaliser.  

 

If we go on to do something at the tournament it will end up being an iconic goal. If we get knocked out by the Swiss...

[Admiral Nelsen]

3 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Portugal were mud on the way to winning euro 16. No one remembers how bad they played.  France were pretty average on their way to winning 2018. Even Argentina didn't look particularly impressive at the last world cup 

 

Completely agree with this. How many teams go through international tournaments playing consistently well and then go on to win them?

 

The great Spain team dominated pretty much all comers. Apart from that? Not many. Knockout football is all about staying alive and then striking whilst the iron is hot. Two things that England have not been good at over the last sixty years it has to be said. 

[AllRoverAsia]

7 minutes ago, Ianrally said:

And Sir Geoff didn’t run and mouth off to the crowd either. The difference in how humble the players were then compared to now is mind blowing. 

Sir Geoff's head wasn't up his own arse like so many ofyou today's players.

I read Bellingham's BBC post match. As I was reading my first thought was "entitled dipstick shit" you've just played poorly whilst moaning and doing a baby big lip

[roverandout]

Bellingham is one of England's most likeable players 

[roverandout]

9 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

Completely agree with this. How many teams go through international tournaments playing consistently well and then go on to win them?

 

The great Spain team dominated pretty much all comers. Apart from that? Not many. Knockout football is all about staying alive and then striking whilst the iron is hot. Two things that England have not been good at over the last sixty years it has to be said. 

Even the great Spain team of around 08/12 had to grind out results at times. Admittedly they played far more beautiful football than we have

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

26 minutes ago, Ianrally said:

And Sir Geoff didn’t run and mouth off to the crowd either. The difference in how humble the players were then compared to now is mind blowing. 

There is no comparison.

[MarkBRFC71]

If anyone thinks there will be any changes to the starting 11 other than replacing Guehi (and maybe Trippier if he's not fit - we can only hope as he's been utter wank) then you're deluded.

That was as poor an England performance as I can remember - and I witnessed the Graham Taylor years.  But somehow - despite and not because of Southgate - we're through.  Are we actually going to win it being comfortably the poorest (but luckiest) team, or are we going to be found out by anyone half-decent?

 

[roverandout]

3 minutes ago, MarkBRFC71 said:

If anyone thinks there will be any changes to the starting 11 other than replacing Guehi (and maybe Trippier if he's not fit - we can only hope as he's been utter wank) then you're deluded.

That was as poor an England performance as I can remember - and I witnessed the Graham Taylor years.  But somehow - despite and not because of Southgate - we're through.  Are we actually going to win it being comfortably the poorest (but luckiest) team, or are we going to be found out by anyone half-decent?

 

Only in the final 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 minutes ago, MarkBRFC71 said:

If anyone thinks there will be any changes to the starting 11 other than replacing Guehi (and maybe Trippier if he's not fit - we can only hope as he's been utter wank) then you're deluded.

That was as poor an England performance as I can remember - and I witnessed the Graham Taylor years.  But somehow - despite and not because of Southgate - we're through.  Are we actually going to win it being comfortably the poorest (but luckiest) team, or are we going to be found out by anyone half-decent?

 

Taken as a whole I can’t remember a run of four games as poor as this. We were dog shite, if the players can’t see that they’re heading for a fall.

[roverandout]

I have no fear over Switzerland.  Yes they're well organised but player wise pretty bang average.  We've been shit, no doubting that but I'm expecting at least one great performance this tournament.  I'd like to think it will be this Saturday 

[Gav]

42 minutes ago, MarkBRFC71 said:

If anyone thinks there will be any changes to the starting 11 other than replacing Guehi (and maybe Trippier if he's not fit - we can only hope as he's been utter wank) then you're deluded.

That was as poor an England performance as I can remember - and I witnessed the Graham Taylor years.  But somehow - despite and not because of Southgate - we're through.  Are we actually going to win it being comfortably the poorest (but luckiest) team, or are we going to be found out by anyone half-decent?

 

Many fans forget, or aren't old enough to recall, that we've not even qualified for tournaments in the past, let alone played badly in them! Some of those group games in Italia 90 were right up there with these, Mexico 86 group games too, but granted thats a while back.

As for Graham Taylor, goodness me, we looked like Brazil 1970 last night compared to his tenure!

[Hasta]

1 hour ago, roverandout said:

Bellingham is one of England's most likeable players 

Never really paid him much attention before. But the more I watch this tournament, the more I think he is a bit of a cock. 

 

Edited July 1 by Hasta

[joey_big_nose]

54 minutes ago, roverandout said:

I have no fear over Switzerland.  Yes they're well organised but player wise pretty bang average.  We've been shit, no doubting that but I'm expecting at least one great performance this tournament.  I'd like to think it will be this Saturday 

They've played a lot better than us, absolutely dominated an Italy team in a way that is rarely seen.

I think we will actually go in as underdogs which is not something I would have said before the tournament. 

[MarkBRFC71]

12 minutes ago, Gav said:

Many fans forget, or aren't old enough to recall, that we've not even qualified for tournaments in the past, let alone played badly in them! Some of those group games in Italia 90 were right up there with these, Mexico 86 group games too, but granted thats a while back.

As for Graham Taylor, goodness me, we looked like Brazil 1970 last night compared to his tenure!

I remember both those tournaments and England performances well - we were poor in '86 up to we played Poland and beat them 3-0 (I think?), and then in '90 we drew the first 2 and scraped through by beating Egypt 1-0 - it was the Belgium game that kickstarted that WC for us.

Praying that last night was 2024's 'Belgium' game but it's the hope that kills you :)

[Hasta]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

They've played a lot better than us, absolutely dominated an Italy team in a way that is rarely seen.

I think we will actually go in as underdogs which is not something I would have said before the tournament. 

England 6/5

Draw 2/1

Switzerland 11/4

Hmm.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

They've played a lot better than us, absolutely dominated an Italy team in a way that is rarely seen.

I think we will actually go in as underdogs which is not something I would have said before the tournament. 

They look like a team. They have a way of playing that gets the ball from their end to your end successfully. They’re very well organised and stick to the plan.

[wilsdenrover]

30 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Never really paid him much attention before. But the more I watch this tournament, the more I think he is a bit of a cock. 

 

He didn’t use to seem this way.

Maybe it’s part of moving to Madrid.

Edited July 1 by wilsdenrover

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

12 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

He didn’t use to seem this way.

Maybe it’s part of moving to Madrid.

Apart from scoring the goal he did next to nothing yesterday.