England - Thomas Tuchel then…

[joey_big_nose]

44 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You'd imagine that Brainthwaite and Trafford are sure fire to not go. I don't think he will take Jarrod Bowen either.

One of Quansah, Guehi or Dunk will go.

Up top I'd say Ivan Toney will be dropped.

Unfortunately, I think the last one to go will be Wharton

I think it is surprising he has named Guehi and Dunk over Tomori. He does not rate him whatsoever or can't be arsed to go to Italy

He's got some sort of problem with Tomori. He's been left out in a way that I have never seen a player who has won top division titles and reached Champions League knock outs regularly. Must be something like what happened with Ben White?

Defence is our weakest area and that we are deliberately leaving out two high performers in Tomori and White is risky...

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You'd imagine that Brainthwaite and Trafford are sure fire to not go. I don't think he will take Jarrod Bowen either.

One of Quansah, Guehi or Dunk will go.

Up top I'd say Ivan Toney will be dropped.

Unfortunately, I think the last one to go will be Wharton

I think it is surprising he has named Guehi and Dunk over Tomori. He does not rate him whatsoever or can't be arsed to go to Italy

Ghuei is by far our second best defender after stones. He always looks composed is a good defender and has good distribution.  I think Wharton will go. As will toney. 

[roverandout]

10 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

He's got some sort of problem with Tomori. He's been left out in a way that I have never seen a player who has won top division titles and reached Champions League knock outs regularly. Must be something like what happened with Ben White?

Defence is our weakest area and that we are deliberately leaving out two high performers in Tomori and White is risky...

White has burned his bridges with England so he can sling his hook. Tomori apparently isn't good enough on the ball for Southgate 

[Dreams of 1995]

14 minutes ago, roverandout said:

White has burned his bridges with England so he can sling his hook. Tomori apparently isn't good enough on the ball for Southgate 

Lewis Dunk isn't the best on the ball is he!!

I would bring Ben White back in when Southgate goes. Trippier hasn't gone long left and Kyle Walker is 33 so probably both of their last tournaments. White can play right back very well.

[Ianrally]

How Trafford is in the provisional squad in front of Jack Butland is strange. He’s had a great season for Rangers. 

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Bellingham isnt going to play and doesnt play in a deeper midfield role. So doesnt count for those positions. I think Wharton and Mainoo should go and compete with Alexander Arnold beside Rice.

Bellingham has played as CM for England in Euro 2020 and World Cup 22 plus has played there plenty of times in his career 

[bluebruce]

6 hours ago, rog of the rovers said:

Amazing how much turnover in the squad/team in just three years.

Euro 2020 Final vs. Italy (played 11th July 2021)

Kalvin Phillips, Raheem Sterling, Mason Mount all started, all miss the squad completely this time.

Jordan Henderson, Marcus Rashford, Jadon Sancho all came off the bench, all miss the squad completely this time.

6/16 or 37.5% of Englands players in the match miss the 26 man squad entirely, just three years on.

Non playing substitues that also miss out on the squad this time include. Tyrone Mings, Conor Coady, Dominic Calvert-Lewin and Reece James.

Other members of the squad to miss out, Ben Chilwell, Ben White, Sam Johnstone.

An incredible 13/26 or half the entire squad miss out on Euro 2024, just three years later.

It's worse than that. They've missed the 33-man squad, let alone the 26. I haven't been following the Prem much for many years now, but I was pretty surprised to see Sterling, Rashford and Sancho fail to even make the provisional squad.

[bluebruce]

3 hours ago, Ianrally said:

How Trafford is in the provisional squad in front of Jack Butland is strange. He’s had a great season for Rangers. 

Without seeing either player play, I think those last few words would sum it up...you can't prove much about your goalkeeping playing in the SPL with a few European games thrown in. Couldn't break into Palace or Manure's teams.

[Admiral Nelsen]

13 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Without seeing either player play, I think those last few words would sum it up...you can't prove much about your goalkeeping playing in the SPL with a few European games thrown in. Couldn't break into Palace or Manure's teams.

 

Take your point, playing for Celtic/Rangers is arguably better preparation for a keeper compared to a relegation fodder prem team. You're not expecting to make 7 or 8 saves a game, but you need to be mistake free under massive pressure. 

[Admiral Nelsen]

Some big calls from Southgate which I didn't expect, so fair play to him for that. I'm slightly uneasy about leaving Rashford out. He's obviously been very poor this season and doesn't deserve his place, but nobody else offers the pace and power running in behind like he does. He's always been good for England too, so I'd have been tempted to find a place in the squad. Maybe Gordon can be that player coming off the bench. 

[speeeeeeedie]

2 hours ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

Some big calls from Southgate which I didn't expect, so fair play to him for that. I'm slightly uneasy about leaving Rashford out. He's obviously been very poor this season and doesn't deserve his place, but nobody else offers the pace and power running in behind like he does. He's always been good for England too, so I'd have been tempted to find a place in the squad. Maybe Gordon can be that player coming off the bench. 

This is a decent summary of the whole squad from Phil McNulty at the BBC; BBC - Ruthless Southgate

 

[roversfan99]

Always difficult to judge friendlies where loads of barely capped players are put together. A 3 nil win flattered England against a very poor Bosnia side after a couple of late goals when they were knackered.

I dont think many of what are fringe players did much to guarantee a place on the plane. Watkins doesnt look at home in an England shirt, has had a brilliant season at Villa but seems to struggle with the step up of being the main man for his country and further highlighted the importance of Kane. There is a lot of understandable clamour for Palmer who also had had a great season but he seemed to take one or two touches too many, and both Bowen and in particular Eze did some nice turns but little of consequence beyond that. Guehi seems set to start the tournament but made one terrible error that a better team would punish and Gallagher is nowhere near good enough for a team with the intentions of getting as far as we claim to, so limited on the ball.

Alexander Arnold is a bit of a dilemma, he seems more natural at right back but some of his passes stood out and his finish was excellent. Obviously we were comfortable against a limited side with little quality but you would want more from individuals who are pushing not only to guarantee their place on the plane but to be next in line behind the main 4 attacking players.

Wharton played as if he was in the park such was his composure.

[RoverDom]

The stand out fringe players from last night for me were Eze and Wharton.

With 26 players in the squad there's enough room for a wild card and for me that has to be Wharton out of all the uncapped / low capped players he's head and shoulders above everyone. 

I think Joe Gomez has to be on the plane and would like to see some more of him against Iceland. Would chop, Trafford, Quansah and Jones but that still leaves another 4 to cut. I make it 12 players who could play in the front 4 so that could be trimmed down but not sure who. I don't think Gordon makes the cut. Kane Watkins and Toney seems excessive but Kane has been carrying a bad back so we may need three as cover especially as we don't have someone like Rashford who can play thorugh the middle as cover. 

 

 

[ABBEY]

Cheers Gareth... slept like a baby

[AllRoverAsia]

2 hours ago, ABBEY said:

Cheers Gareth... slept like a baby

LOL. I only kept watching because Adam W came on. 

I kept nodding off before then. 🥱 

 

 

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, RoverDom said:

The stand out fringe players from last night for me were Eze and Wharton.

With 26 players in the squad there's enough room for a wild card and for me that has to be Wharton out of all the uncapped / low capped players he's head and shoulders above everyone. 

I think Joe Gomez has to be on the plane and would like to see some more of him against Iceland. Would chop, Trafford, Quansah and Jones but that still leaves another 4 to cut. I make it 12 players who could play in the front 4 so that could be trimmed down but not sure who. I don't think Gordon makes the cut. Kane Watkins and Toney seems excessive but Kane has been carrying a bad back so we may need three as cover especially as we don't have someone like Rashford who can play thorugh the middle as cover. 

 

 

If he is fit I think Gordon is ahead (or should be) of Grealish, Maddison and Toney in attack, not starting but in the squad. Gives us pace we dont have loads of and works hard going back ahead of an out of position LB.

[RoverDom]

17 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If he is fit I think Gordon is ahead (or should be) of Grealish, Maddison and Toney in attack, not starting but in the squad. Gives us pace we dont have loads of and works hard going back ahead of an out of position LB.

Yeah to be fair I'd take him but I don't think Southgate will take him. 

[speeeeeeedie]

5 hours ago, RoverDom said:

The stand out fringe players from last night for me were Eze and Wharton.

With 26 players in the squad there's enough room for a wild card and for me that has to be Wharton out of all the uncapped / low capped players he's head and shoulders above everyone. 

I think Joe Gomez has to be on the plane and would like to see some more of him against Iceland. Would chop, Trafford, Quansah and Jones but that still leaves another 4 to cut. I make it 12 players who could play in the front 4 so that could be trimmed down but not sure who. I don't think Gordon makes the cut. Kane Watkins and Toney seems excessive but Kane has been carrying a bad back so we may need three as cover especially as we don't have someone like Rashford who can play thorugh the middle as cover. 

 

 

Wharton did look decent when he came on, he got a decent write up from the BBC too. Although if this was a Leeds forum I doubt we'd be signing his praises as much. 

You can't read much into the game but I thought Trent AA did well. I always lean on the opinion that Southgate would prefer experience so I think he'll get the 3rd midfield spot. I also think that because of that Grealish will go too. His cameo was bright. 

I agree with you on Gomez, he can play anywhere across the back 4. Southgate has somewhat limited his own options by picking Shaw and Maguire who are currently injured. All signs are that Maguire will be fit, but less so Shaw who hasn't played much at all this season.

Using my powers of bad guess work I have Southgate dropping these 7; Trafford, Quansah, Konsa, Jones, Bowen, Gordon, Maddison. I'm no fan of Gallagher but I think his energy gets him in.

Wharton and Mainoo get in as they are specialist midfielders. Palmer is in as he has something about him. Dunk, although not the quickest, is an older head who can do a job.

Gordon being injured is no good for him. If he was in Southgate's preferred 11 he'd be OK, but he's a newcomer who plays wide forward. Southgate has loads of options there.

Eze sneaks in ahead of Maddison, going against the experience opinion I applied to TAA.

 

[RoverDom]

32 minutes ago, speeeeeeedie said:

Using my powers of bad guess work I have Southgate dropping these 7; Trafford, Quansah, Konsa, Jones, Bowen, Gordon, Maddison.

That's pretty much what I was thinking as well. I feel like he was taking a good look at Konsa and his versatility last night but he didn't wow me and I'd rather have gomez. 

Bowen is the one on that list I could see going but it depends if he takes all three forwards or not. 

[roverandout]

I like Gallagher but he's not a player u start with. He's someone's to bring on if u are chasing a Game.  Harries. Bowen and Watkins just aren't good enough.  Toney looks far more at home.  Eze is pure class. He has to go. So does Wharton 

[speeeeeeedie]

25 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

That's pretty much what I was thinking as well. I feel like he was taking a good look at Konsa and his versatility last night but he didn't wow me and I'd rather have gomez. 

Bowen is the one on that list I could see going but it depends if he takes all three forwards or not. 

Watkins hasn't impressed in his last 2 outings. He was poor last night and was ineffective back in March. England's game is more suited to Toney as he is similar to Kane in the way he plays. Watkins plays off the shoulder making runs in behind. England use Kane as a focal point with the wide players forging ahead. Toney holds play up better so to me would seemingly be the understudy, but Watkins offers something different.

2 minutes ago, roverandout said:

I like Gallagher but he's not a player u start with. He's someone's to bring on if u are chasing a Game.  Harries. Bowen and Watkins just aren't good enough.  Toney looks far more at home.  Eze is pure class. He has to go. So does Wharton 

Gallagher works his socks off, but can't play an incisive pass, doesn't score enough, and can get caught in possession, but I do agree with you that he has attributes that can help in certain situations. 

Grealish is feeling the heat as he hasn't played much for City. Unlike Rashford he did what was expected when he did play, he didn't sulk, and often times when a player isn't playing for Guardiola it's not down to them it's Guardiola deciding to do something else.  

Bowen is a good player but Southgate has too much talent ahead of him. For me he's behind Gordon, who I don't think is going. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, speeeeeeedie said:

Watkins hasn't impressed in his last 2 outings. He was poor last night and was ineffective back in March. England's game is more suited to Toney as he is similar to Kane in the way he plays. Watkins plays off the shoulder making runs in behind. England use Kane as a focal point with the wide players forging ahead. Toney holds play up better so to me would seemingly be the understudy, but Watkins offers something different.

Gallagher works his socks off, but can't play an incisive pass, doesn't score enough, and can get caught in possession, but I do agree with you that he has attributes that can help in certain situations. 

Grealish is feeling the heat as he hasn't played much for City. Unlike Rashford he did what was expected when he did play, he didn't sulk, and often times when a player isn't playing for Guardiola it's not down to them it's Guardiola deciding to do something else.  

Bowen is a good player but Southgate has too much talent ahead of him. For me he's behind Gordon, who I don't think is going. 

I agree with you about Gallagher, he’s a grafter but he’s not a game changer.

[roversfan99]

Sadly he wont be dropped but theres no way Dunk should be going, nowhere near good enough.

Quansah, Trafford and Jones are easiest 3 to drop. A decision needs to be made on Shaw, hes obviously our only competent left back so if he will be fit soon then he is perhaps worth taking. Maguire will also not be fit for the tournament, im not keen on taking players carrying injuries unless they are key and even when Maguire is fit he is not a particularly good player so I wouldnt take him either.

Stones is an obvious pick, Guehi made a big mistake last night and is a bit rusty but he is a decent player and should go, as should Branthwaite. Konsa also deserves to go, he is best at centre back and more limited but still useful at full back, similar to Gomez. We named 8 centre backs but it is still difficult to find enough who justify selection.

Further forward, we pretty much know that the front 4 will be Kane, Foden, Bellingham and Saka, so its all about who can best supplement them. Gordon and Bowen provide a bit more width and have both had very good seasons so they would go as would Palmer who would prefer to play in a position with 2 world class players ahead of him, but has been outstanding this season and can play from the right too. Watkins seems to struggle for his country but with the disparity between his season and Toney's, forgetting one decent friendly performance and penalty from the latter a few months ago, Watkins has to go. Maddison is also unnecessary, to be honest I can't see Eze or a very lucky Grealish really featuring, and im not too fond of Gallagher who shouldnt be near the starting 11.

So I would personally cut Trafford, Dunk, Quansah, Jones, Maguire, Maddison and Toney.

I think he will cut Trafford, Branthwaite, Quansah, Jones, Wharton, Maddison and Toney.

 

[Bohinen1983]

I think Southgate needs to start using friendlies to test a couple of lads from the Championship..

In these nothing friendlies if you've a player that's looking very promising in the championship, throw them in and have a look..  As seen with Wharton and Eze, there's some quality knocking about. Why not give them a look..  I certainly would.. I get the rationale behind waiting until they're playing at the very top, but sometimes I think you can be cutting your nose off to spite your face.. 

Selecting shite from top teams that never plays whilst over looking young lads playing out their skin a division below..  At least keep an open mind..

 

[rigger]

38 minutes ago, Bohinen1983 said:

I think Southgate needs to start using friendlies to test a couple of lads from the Championship..

In these nothing friendlies if you've a player that's looking very promising in the championship, throw them in and have a look..  As seen with Wharton and Eze, there's some quality knocking about. Why not give them a look..  I certainly would.. I get the rationale behind waiting until they're playing at the very top, but sometimes I think you can be cutting your nose off to spite your face.. 

Selecting shite from top teams that never plays whilst over looking young lads playing out their skin a division below..  At least keep an open mind..

 

I thought both the players you mentioned play in the premier league.