England - Thomas Tuchel then…

[simongarnerisgod]

looking forward to see this m`bappe,he`s supposed to be pretty useful by all accounts

[BankEnd Rover]

The arrogance of Mr Neville is of no surprise…He doesn’t even mention Wharton!!

Wharton being a Blackburn lad or not he gets in the England team easily for me.

[simongarnerisgod]

1 minute ago, Ianrally said:

Gary Neville just said Gareth Southgate is the best England manager for 60-70 years. That takes us to 1954.1964.
We won the World Cup in 1966 with Sir Alf you total tit Neville. 

not to mention bobby robson,taking on and almost beating the best german side ever with a side that was levels below what southgate has

[matt83]

Keane, Neville and wright seemed to be full on tripe mode there. I think if they’re brutally honest with themselves when they are talking about foden they are only referring to exploits in a citeh shirt. In an England shirt he’s firmly average. He scored against wales in Qatar 3-0 if memory serves can’t think of another competitive goal and can’t really recall too many stand out performances in an England shirt. 

[Exiled_Rover]

3 minutes ago, matt83 said:

Keane, Neville and wright seemed to be full on tripe mode there. I think if they’re brutally honest with themselves when they are talking about foden they are only referring to exploits in a citeh shirt. In an England shirt he’s firmly average. He scored against wales in Qatar 3-0 if memory serves can’t think of another competitive goal and can’t really recall too many stand out performances in an England shirt. 

He's a brilliant, brilliant player. One of the few World Class players we have - if Southgate can't get a tune out of him, that's on the manager. 

[Ewood Ace]

Those results today have certainly made Group E very interesting. Looking like Ukraine have been bombed out already with Slovakia winning and their own goal difference taking a bit of a hammering.  

[simongarnerisgod]

it must be a rule of punditry that your not allowed to criticise or speak your mind,even keane has calmed down,that england side was unbalanced last night because the manager has`nt got the minerals to go out and attack the opposition

[Ewood Ace]

1 minute ago, simongarnerisgod said:

it must be a rule of punditry that your not allowed to criticise or speak your mind,even keane has calmed down,that england side was unbalanced last night because the manager has`nt got the minerals to go out and attack the opposition

The problem is they are all chummy with Southgate. 

[chaddyrovers]

28 minutes ago, matt83 said:

Keane, Neville and wright seemed to be full on tripe mode there. I think if they’re brutally honest with themselves when they are talking about foden they are only referring to exploits in a citeh shirt. In an England shirt he’s firmly average. He scored against wales in Qatar 3-0 if memory serves can’t think of another competitive goal and can’t really recall too many stand out performances in an England shirt. 

Foden is class but we need to get the best out him, Bellingham and Kane. 

[RTM08]

20 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

He's a brilliant, brilliant player. One of the few World Class players we have - if Southgate can't get a tune out of him, that's on the manager. 

Don't get me wrong, I think Southgate is an abysmal manager, but at this level the "world class" players should be the ones demanding the ball and forcing their way into the game. Bellingham did, and Foden looked like he couldn't be bothered.

21 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Those results today have certainly made Group E very interesting. Looking like Ukraine have been bombed out already with Slovakia winning and their own goal difference taking a bit of a hammering.  

Slovakia looked solid though they were bailed out by yet another Lukaku disasterclass in front of goal. Romania could do a number on Belgium to on the right day.

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, RTM08 said:

I think Southgate is an abysmal manager

how? best Tournament results since Sir Terry Venables and Sir Bobby Robson. Hoddle, Eriksson, Capello, McClaren, Hodgson couldn't achieved what Southgate has with this set of players. 

[matt83]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Foden is class but we need to get the best out him, Bellingham and Kane. 

Foden is undoubtedly world class in a citeh shirt. But in an England shirt he is ordinary at best. The manager is playing him out of position to a certain extent but in his natural position vs Iceland the other week he was rubbish. There’s an issue trying to get him to get even half way to his club form. Is it him, is it Southgate, who knows but it needs addressing asap.  

[wilsdenrover]

2 minutes ago, matt83 said:

Foden is undoubtedly world class in a citeh shirt. But in an England shirt he is ordinary at best. The manager is playing him out of position to a certain extent but in his natural position vs Iceland the other week he was rubbish. There’s an issue trying to get him to get even half way to his club form. Is it him, is it Southgate, who knows but it needs addressing asap.  

Do city make him look better than he is or does Southgate make him look worse?

[simongarnerisgod]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

how? best Tournament results since Sir Terry Venables and Sir Bobby Robson. Hoddle, Eriksson, Capello, McClaren, Hodgson couldn't achieved what Southgate has with this set of players. 

if you look at his club record it`s not very good,iv`e no idea how he got the job tbh,i suppose being a quiet sort helps when you want the england job,any sniff of slight controversy and your out

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, matt83 said:

Foden is undoubtedly world class in a citeh shirt. But in an England shirt he is ordinary at best. The manager is playing him out of position to a certain extent but in his natural position vs Iceland the other week he was rubbish. There’s an issue trying to get him to get even half way to his club form. Is it him, is it Southgate, who knows but it needs addressing asap.  

What is Foden's natural position? He has played all 3 positions behind the main striker this season. I like him either in the number 10 or left. Maybe he may end up like Paul Scholes where we never got the best out of him

 

[matt83]

Just now, wilsdenrover said:

Do city make him look better than he is or does Southgate make him look worse?

Good question. Personally I’d go with the latter. I see him doing things for citeh very few players in the world could do which has nothing to do with the players around him if anything on those occasions he pulls up other class players. Just never seen it for country. 

[matt83]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

What is Foden's natural position? He has played all 3 positions behind the main striker this season. I like him either in the number 10 or left. Maybe he may end up like Paul Scholes where we never got the best out of him

 

I’d say where Bellingham is playing and frankly wouldn’t move Bellingham 

[RTM08]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

how? best Tournament results since Sir Terry Venables and Sir Bobby Robson. Hoddle, Eriksson, Capello, McClaren, Hodgson couldn't achieved what Southgate has with this set of players. 

His club record is poor at best and was only given the job because of the chaos that had gone before.

In tournaments themselves, lost to every major nation he's faced (aside from the worst German team in decades), with every single one of the big ones being lost by him being completely unable to adapt. England start well, the opposition change it up and we just sit back and let them come on to us until we lose.

Last night proved he's learned nothing - the opposition just wasn't good enough to punish us.

[Ewood Ace]

9 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

how? best Tournament results since Sir Terry Venables and Sir Bobby Robson. Hoddle, Eriksson, Capello, McClaren, Hodgson couldn't achieved what Southgate has with this set of players. 

Lucky draws. Every time he plays a good side in a tournament he loses. If Sven had the luck that Southgate has had he would have achieved similar results if not better. 

[simongarnerisgod]

10 minutes ago, RTM08 said:

His club record is poor at best and was only given the job because of the chaos that had gone before.

In tournaments themselves, lost to every major nation he's faced (aside from the worst German team in decades), with every single one of the big ones being lost by him being completely unable to adapt. England start well, the opposition change it up and we just sit back and let them come on to us until we lose.

Last night proved he's learned nothing - the opposition just wasn't good enough to punish us.

mancini out coached him in the euro final,he really did`nt know what to do in the 2nd half,you tend to get that with centre backs they`de rather not lose than go out to win

[matt83]

 

This seems to be the prevailing logic in the media which I do think is very simplistic. Southgate has one final/semi final to his name therefore he’s not as good as Alf Ramsay but he’s better than el tel/bobby who managed one semi, and therefore he’s the second best manager we’ve ever had. In the same way if David May had 5 or 6 major trophies he isn’t 5 or 6 times a better player than shearer with his 1. 

Relative to other nations he’s had squads that are probably in the top 4 of world football. Very few England managers can say that.

Plus he’s had the luck of the Irish with the draws. In the knockouts of a tournament would you expect England to beat Colombia, Sweden and Croatia. 100% yes but we failed to beat Croatia and in fact lost 2 other games vs Belgium. In almost every other World Cup in my lifetime to get a semis would need to beat a top nation. We had the dream route but couldn’t capitalise. 

Euro 2020 zee Germans were in disarray and have been for the last 3 tournaments. Nevertheless defo Southgate’s best win to date but would you also expect England to beat Ukraine and Denmark 100%. Italy was a 50:50 in the final at home you’d think we’d just have the edge but bottled it.

 

[chaddyrovers]

35 minutes ago, RTM08 said:

His club record is poor at best and was only given the job because of the chaos that had gone before.

In tournaments themselves, lost to every major nation he's faced (aside from the worst German team in decades), with every single one of the big ones being lost by him being completely unable to adapt. England start well, the opposition change it up and we just sit back and let them come on to us until we lose.

Last night proved he's learned nothing - the opposition just wasn't good enough to punish us.

his club record has no bearing on this. Capello has won most trophies in major leagues yet he was useless at international level and tactical useless. 

32 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Lucky draws. Every time he plays a good side in a tournament he loses. If Sven had the luck that Southgate has had he would have achieved similar results if not better. 

Just more and more excuses. 

[wilsdenrover]

Can someone please put Lee Dixon out of his misery.

Failing that, can someone please put me out of mine.

[Upside Down]

2 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Can someone please put Lee Dixon out of his misery.

Failing that, can someone please put me out of mine.

Always been a complete helmet that mon.

[RTM08]

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

his club record has no bearing on this. Capello has won most trophies in major leagues yet he was useless at international level and tactical useless. 

Really interesting that you focus on the half sentence at the start and completely ignore the paragraph that explained my reasoning for him being poor as England manager.