England - Thomas Tuchel then…

[Hasta]

Just now, G Somerset Rover said:

I mean, his stats speak for themselves in La Liga but let’s not forget Bellingham was anonymous in the big CL KO games for Madrid. The plan to absolutely build our team solely around him (I know you’re not suggesting that, but many are) would be naive.

Then don’t pick him. But don’t drop him into a deep holding role (which is what the other person implied)

There is a good team here, but it needs some tough decisions.

[joey_big_nose]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

It's time we play Bellingham next Rice with Foden as a ten with Kane with Palmer on the right and Gordon or Eze on the left. 

We should have taken Chilwell to play left back. Tripper is a solid player but he's not a natural left back. 

Out of tha attackers Saka has been the best so far for us imo, no way I would drop him.

Anyway irrespective of who plays or how we setup next game we have to press and be intense across the front amd midfield. Its more important than who actually plays imo.

[chaddyrovers]

19 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Surely Bellinghams best position is where the European Champions play him.

He is dropping so drop deep he might aswell play next to Rice in a number 8 role. I suggested him playing there before the tournament even started with Foden as the number 10, but maybe play Kane and Watkins as number 9

2 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Out of tha attackers Saka has been the best so far for us imo, no way I would drop him.

Anyway irrespective of who plays or how we setup next game we have to press and be intense across the front amd midfield. Its more important than who actually plays imo.

Deffo need to press and be intense from the front and midfield. 

[roversfan99]

Against Serbia we was so pedestrian, dull, playing at testimonial pace and regularly just getting Pickford to hoof it long. The attacking players didnt press and we sat really deep. Some put it down to easing our way into the tournament, but today we were miles worse. So frustrating.

The onus has to fall on the terrible manager as to why players who thrive for their clubs are a shadow of theirselves for their country. Southgate is such a negative manager and that is proven by how despite boos our players seemed keen to waste time and protect the point at the end. I dont agree that we are an attacking player light, you cant put Bellingham deep in midfield, we would get overrun even more. But its the instructions, we dont look like we have trained how to press as a team, we sit really deep, Pickford keeps lumping it long.

Mind you, our squad is overhyped based on names. If you put the calibre of the 11 names today on paper, it compares to most in the tournament. But thats not factoring in the total lack of balance. It is similar to when we had a "golden generation" albeit not as much quality. We keep playing 3 right backs, one as a ridiculous experiment in midfield which has to be stopped and one is 33 and toiling on the wrong side on the left. We have absolutely no left backs, taking Shaw was crazy and I get why the unfit and crap Chilwell was left out but surely Tyrick Mitchell deserved a call up. In midfield we have Rice doing a job he doesnt do for his club and then such a problem beside him. Gallagher is shocking at this level and our other 2 options have barely a seasons worth of top level games under their belts between them. I think Wharton would be as good a choice as any but fear we as Rovers fans are biased in that it would be a huge step up at this stage to expect him to dictate games at the top level. Foden, Bellingham and Kane cant really all co-exist because they all want to be in the same area, and its those 3 why people think our squad is too good. 

Never will a pre tournament favourite have less chance of winning the tournament.

[roversfan99]

16 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

He is dropping so drop deep he might aswell play next to Rice in a number 8 role. I suggested him playing there before the tournament even started with Foden as the number 10, but maybe play Kane and Watkins as number 9

Deffo need to press and be intense from the front and midfield. 

Are you suggesting playing Kane and Watkins because Shearer mentioned how Bobby Robson played him with Bellamy and suggested similar?

Bellingham is an attacking midfielder, not a deep lying one. He has practically played up front for Real Madrid in the season when he has gone from very good to world class. He has to play in his natural position.

So that leaves the Foden and Kane dilemma. I dont think you can have all 3 in there in a balanced side, wanting to go into the same spaces. If Kane plays, you need pace running in behind, so Foden cant play. Eze is similar, Palmer is similar, even Bowen, not that quick. Gordon is the standout candidate. Alternatively, you keep Foden in, you play Watkins who isnt a top level striker but he stretches the play and allows more space for Foden and Bellingham.

The main 2 problems are left back and central midfield, and are hard to rectify with the current squad. Gallagher is really bad on the ball and really rash, he is not good enough. So it has to be either Mainoo or Wharton, for me the latter, to give us composure and a better foil for Rice.

Left back is harder because Southgate took a stupid risk and put all of his eggs in the Shaw basket. He can not possibly be fit enough to be taken seriously. Trippier is finished at this level especially at left back where he is like a fish up a tree. I would try Gomez reluctantly just because he has at least played some games this season in that position.

I think our pre tournament favourites tag is because we have maybe 5 or 6 players who are considered at the very top level, those names grab peoples attention. But there are huge issues both in fitting those players together and with huge glaring weaknesses around them. Chuck in a shit manager too. The issues run beyond personnel, the tactics are terrible.

[Upside Down]

41 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Then don’t pick him. But don’t drop him into a deep holding role (which is what the other person implied)

There is a good team here, but it needs some tough decisions.

Good squad, shit manager.

[Dreams of 1995]

That was crap 

[J*B]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

It's time we play Bellingham next Rice with Foden as a ten with Kane with Palmer on the right and Gordon or Eze on the left. 

We should have taken Chilwell to play left back. Tripper is a solid player but he's not a natural left back. 

Wait, is Chilwell fit? I had assumed he was injured! How have we ended up with no fit left back in a full squad? We should have taken Chilwell, Mitchell at Palace or even Davis at Ipswich until Shaw was fit. Nobody can tell me all three of them aren’t good enough for Serbia, Denmark and Slovenia. 

[Ewood Ace]

Only Southgate could have this squad and be bemoaning the lose of Kalvin Phillips. It sums up his mindset as a manager.

[Ewood Ace]

26 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

So that leaves the Foden and Kane dilemma. I dont think you can have all 3 in there in a balanced side, wanting to go into the same spaces. If Kane plays, you need pace running in behind, so Foden cant play. Eze is similar, Palmer is similar, even Bowen, not that quick. Gordon is the standout candidate. Alternatively, you keep Foden in, you play Watkins who isnt a top level striker but he stretches the play and allows more space for Foden and Bellingham.

If you are choosing between Kane and Foden then it is no choice. One has produced time and time again in an England shirt whereas the other has done little of note in nearly 40 games.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Don't agree. Bellingham drops so deep you might aswell play him there. He has played there loads for England and Birmingham 

Foden as the 10 and Kane up front and he has to play there or you play Kane as the 10 as Watkins as the 9 with Foden wide. 

That's on the manager - Kane drops too deep too. Bellingham basically plays where he wants - it disrupts the entire team. 

[davulsukur]

Another poor performance from England and Southgate has some real decisions to make.

As expected, the TAA experiment failed spectacularly for the 2nd game running, the lad is no where near a top level CM. 

We are also down to the classic England conundrum, where we have a group of talented players and are desperate to shoehorn them into the starting 11, purely because we feel we have to, despite it being detrimental to the team overall. He's got to pick either Foden or Bellingham for the role behind Harry Kane. Saka on the right with one of Eze, Bowen or Gordon on the left to give an effective outlet on that wing.

Mainoo or Wharton (obviously backing Wharton here) alongside Rice and drop TAA (or play him at RB)

Not taking a fit LB is looking to be a poor decision from Southgate, Tripper has done OK but nothing more really.

He needs to make some big decisions for the rest of the tournament or I suspect we'll be on our way home after the first round of knockout games.

[chaddyrovers]

28 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Are you suggesting playing Kane and Watkins because Shearer mentioned how Bobby Robson played him with Bellamy and suggested similar?

Kane drops so deep there is no one running behind so either Kane has too high with Foden as the 10. 

28 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Bellingham is an attacking midfielder, not a deep lying one. He has practically played up front for Real Madrid in the season when he has gone from very good to world class. He has to play in his natural position.

So that leaves the Foden and Kane dilemma. I dont think you can have all 3 in there in a balanced side, wanting to go into the same spaces. If Kane plays, you need pace running in behind, so Foden cant play. Eze is similar, Palmer is similar, even Bowen, not that quick. Gordon is the standout candidate. Alternatively, you keep Foden in, you play Watkins who isnt a top level striker but he stretches the play and allows more space for Foden and Bellingham.

The main 2 problems are left back and central midfield, and are hard to rectify with the current squad. Gallagher is really bad on the ball and really rash, he is not good enough. So it has to be either Mainoo or Wharton, for me the latter, to give us composure and a better foil for Rice.

I would play Bellingham next to Rice. As I have said Bellingham is dropping so deep then he might aswell play the 8 role. No-one says he has stay next to Rice but actually go forward and get up with Kane and Foden plus get into the box. We don't need 2 defensive midfielders

28 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Left back is harder because Southgate took a stupid risk and put all of his eggs in the Shaw basket. He can not possibly be fit enough to be taken seriously. Trippier is finished at this level especially at left back where he is like a fish up a tree. I would try Gomez reluctantly just because he has at least played some games this season in that position.

We need a left back with a natural left footed. We lack balance

28 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I think our pre tournament favourites tag 

Who cares? Only matters what happens at the tournament 

[Exiled_Rover]

10 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

If you are choosing between Kane and Foden then it is no choice. One has produced time and time again in an England shirt whereas the other has done little of note in nearly 40 games.

Agreed - Foden every time and twice on match day.

Get Watkins on stretching the field. 

[RevidgeBlue]

Words can not describe how much I detest Southgate. He's going to completely waste a talented squad of players again.

I think Southgate is the only person in the Country who wouldnt play Bellingham with Rice, Foden behind Kane and someone who adds genuine width on the left. We dont need two holders in midfield and not only that he's playing a wing back in there who doesnt even play in that position for his Club.

However leaving aside tactical issues and the various square pegs in round holes we've played two games at virtual exhibition pace and look like we simply can't be arsed whereas far less talented teams than us have had a right go and played a thrilling part in some stunning matches.

If it were possible to sack Southgate at half time tonight, I'd have done it. Looks like the players have finally had enough of him.

[Herbie6590]

1 hour ago, B16Rover said:

Has BRFCs taken on influencer marketing?  Don't you need to finish this with #ad

I’d rather discuss M&S clothing than England at the moment…😉

[Exiled_Rover]

Just now, davulsukur said:

Another poor performance from England and Southgate has some real decisions to make.

As expected, the TAA experiment failed spectacularly for the 2nd game running, the lad is no where near a top level CM. 

We are also down to the classic England conundrum, where we have a group of talented players and are desperate to shoehorn them into the starting 11, purely because we feel we have to, despite it being detrimental to the team overall. He's got to pick either Foden or Bellingham for the role behind Harry Kane. Saka on the right with one of Eze, Bowen or Gordon on the left to give an effective outlet on that wing.

Mainoo or Wharton (obviously backing Wharton here) alongside Rice and drop TAA (or play him at RB)

Not taking a fit LB is looking to be a poor decision from Southgate, Tripper has done OK but nothing more really.

He needs to make some big decisions for the rest of the tournament or I suspect we'll be on our way home after the first round of knockout games.

He clearly needs to drop Kane and TAA. Walker is light years better than TAA at RB - the only time you'd bring TAA on is if the other team has absolutely given up attacking and you're camped in their half. 

I'd start Watkins for Kane and Wharton for TAA next match. I'd also have Palmer off the bench as first change. 

Going from Saka and Foden to Bowen and Eze is a monumental drop off in quality. 

[ben_the_beast]

1 minute ago, davulsukur said:

Another poor performance from England and Southgate has some real decisions to make.

As expected, the TAA experiment failed spectacularly for the 2nd game running, the lad is no where near a top level CM. 

We are also down to the classic England conundrum, where we have a group of talented players and are desperate to shoehorn them into the starting 11, purely because we feel we have to, despite it being detrimental to the team overall. He's got to pick either Foden or Bellingham for the role behind Harry Kane. Saka on the right with one of Eze, Bowen or Gordon on the left to give an effective outlet on that wing.

Mainoo or Wharton (obviously backing Wharton here) alongside Rice and drop TAA (or play him at RB)

Not taking a fit LB is looking to be a poor decision from Southgate, Tripper has done OK but nothing more really.

He needs to make some big decisions for the rest of the tournament or I suspect we'll be on our way home after the first round of knockout games.

Agree with most of this. I don't think we'll see the Trent experiment again. Even the stubborn Southgate seems to see this has failed. 

My biggest worry is though, that these group games are about getting the job done AND building momentum. Southgate's befuddled tactics have seen us not having a clue. I think he'll slowly begin to stumble upon a system which works, but it'll be too late. Either that or once again he'll come up against a manager with a bit of nous and won't have a clue how to react. 

I'm pretty sure he's scuppered any chance we had. Or at least seriously limited them. 

Thankfully he'll be gone after this tournament. I'm grateful he restored some pride in the England shirt. For me, that's his legacy. I'd like to see Gary O'Neil given the job. Love listening to him talk tactics. 

[matt83]

Just watched the post match interviews. Fair dos to Kelly sommers (I think) for asking directly if the manager asks the players to sit back if take the lead. Refuted of course. Footballers these days are little more than politicians with their answers, ultra optimist bullshit response only. “it’s tough when you come to these grounds hostile environments.” Fuck off Kyle 90% of the crowd were England fans.

[simongarnerisgod]

8 minutes ago, ben_the_beast said:

Agree with most of this. I don't think we'll see the Trent experiment again. Even the stubborn Southgate seems to see this has failed. 

My biggest worry is though, that these group games are about getting the job done AND building momentum. Southgate's befuddled tactics have seen us not having a clue. I think he'll slowly begin to stumble upon a system which works, but it'll be too late. Either that or once again he'll come up against a manager with a bit of nous and won't have a clue how to react. 

I'm pretty sure he's scuppered any chance we had. Or at least seriously limited them. 

Thankfully he'll be gone after this tournament. I'm grateful he restored some pride in the England shirt. For me, that's his legacy. I'd like to see Gary O'Neil given the job. Love listening to him talk tactics. 

id`e give the job to potter,he`s the best qualified,ignore the chelsea shananagins,jesus himself would`nt last the season there

[Mercer]

MU fans will be hoping and praying Sir Jim doesn't go for Southgate when his England contract expires this year.

Our most talented group of players for years and years yet Southgate can't get the best out of them with his hopeless selections, formations and tactics.

Get Klopp appointed to give us passion, style and excitement.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

22 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

I’d rather discuss M&S clothing than England at the moment…😉

M&S ? That’s where your wife goes to buy your clothes for you.

[jim mk2]

10 minutes ago, Mercer said:

MU fans will be hoping and praying Sir Jim doesn't go for Southgate when his England contract expires this year.

Our most talented group of players for years and years yet Southgate can't get the best out of them with his hopeless selections, formations and tactics.

Get Klopp appointed to give us passion, style and excitement.

A German as England manager. Good suggestion but almost certain to blow a fuse in the tiny minds of the fans who sing the Ten Bombers song 

[matt83]

I was speculating to my Geordie mate that after this tournament a straight swap for Eddie Howe. He was quite irate about the hypothetical prospect of even appointing Southgate there. That got me thinking. Where next for him. No top premier league team will be happy with him as manager, I wouldn’t be that happy to see him at rovers (no money relying purely on tactical prowess) and he wouldn’t stoop this low anyway which means he’s looking at relegation fodder type prem league teams at best. 

[davulsukur]

28 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

He clearly needs to drop Kane and TAA. Walker is light years better than TAA at RB - the only time you'd bring TAA on is if the other team has absolutely given up attacking and you're camped in their half. 

I'd start Watkins for Kane and Wharton for TAA next match. I'd also have Palmer off the bench as first change. 

Going from Saka and Foden to Bowen and Eze is a monumental drop off in quality. 

Oh yeah, Walker is miles better than TAA, I agree. Just saying if he has to play, he needs to play RB but I'd start Walker ahead of him.

Saka has to start on the right but Foden has been poor on the left. His best work comes when he is behind the striker.

Don't think Bowen, Gordon or Eze are top level players but if they are more natural wide players than Foden (not sure if they all are) then they will surely be more effective than shoehorning a player on the left foe the sake of it.