England - Thomas Tuchel then…

[simongarnerisgod]

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Absolutely Ludicrous decisich to disallow the Dutch goal,.

The player wasnt in the keepers eyeliner and the keeper was never getting anywhere near the shot.

That decision could have a major bearing on the eventual outcome of the competition. Should have been the most straightforward of decisions to over-rule the onfield officials.

Slightly different technology in use but VAR still ruining the game.

he was offside first and foremost,i was surprised attwell got something right for once🙂

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Your list is utterly depressing.  Howe would be an outsider, the rest would be nowhere.

Ok. You aren't going to change my view on this. 

5 minutes ago, Mercer said:

You say we tried two foreign managers and no more you say.  However, you neglect to say since Sir Alf we've had about 15 English managers and achieved what!?!?

Funny enough I did the other day when I said Hodgson and McClaren failed as England manager. 

Sir Bobby Robson and Terry Venables were the best England manager plus Southgate In tournaments. 

5 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Football is about opinions but I think you would find your opinions are very much in the minority where the nationality of the  national team manager is concerned.

Am I in the minority tho? 

[Mercer]

20 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Absolutely Ludicrous decisich to disallow the Dutch goal,.

The player wasnt in the keepers eyeliner and the keeper was never getting anywhere near the shot.

That decision could have a major bearing on the eventual outcome of the competition. Should have been the most straightforward of decisions to over-rule the onfield officials.

Slightly different technology in use but VAR still ruining the game.

Absolutely agree.  Attwell has 'form' though doesn't he!?

[Mercer]

17 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Ok. You aren't going to change my view on this. 

Funny enough I did the other day when I said Hodgson and McClaren failed as England manager. 

Sir Bobby Robson and Terry Venables were the best England manager plus Southgate In tournaments. 

Am I in the minority tho? 

What have we won since 1966?  The answer is nothing.  Simple as that.

Pretty sure you are in the minority.  Get a poll going on here and let's see who is right!

[joey_big_nose]

I thought the disallowed goal was fair enough, the Dutch player was completely blocking where the French keeper needed to dive. If it had been Rovers/ England and the goal allowed I would have been fuming.

Also as much as England have looked unconvincing so have France. Based on the games so far it really is Spain and Germany who look well balanced, energised and full of quality.

But if theres one trusim the groups of a major tournament are a very poor guide on who will go onto win it. Id still back France I think.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, simongarnerisgod said:

he was offside first and foremost,i was surprised attwell got something right for once🙂

Off side for me as well. 

[RevidgeBlue]

4 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

I thought the disallowed goal was fair enough, the Dutch player was completely blocking where the French keeper needed to dive. If it had been Rovers/ England and the goal allowed I would have been fuming.

The keeper was getting nowhere near that shot whether the Dutch player was stood there or not. He barely had time to react let alone dive.

Ridiculous decision, ruling out an excellent goal for the sake of it. And one that could have major implications for who plays who and as regards the eventual outcome of the tournament.

[RevidgeBlue]

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Off side for me as well. 

We all know he was stood in an offside position but he wasn't "interfering" according to the definition.

[wilsdenrover]

13 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

We all know he was stood in an offside position but he wasn't "interfering" according to the definition.

Covered by this part of the law?:

• a player moving from, or standing in, an offside position is in the way of an opponent and interferes with the movement of the opponent towards the ball this is an offside offence if it impacts on the ability of the opponent to play or challenge for the ball

Edited June 21 by wilsdenrover

[joey_big_nose]

5 hours ago, riverholmes said:

Some interesting comments by Southgate in a press conference on England's defensive press options: "We know with the profile of players that we've got, we don't feel the way to press is really high up the pitch. I don't think that's the physical level of the team at the moment either. But we've got to find a way of being more compact and more difficult to play against than we found in the last three halves of football.”

I can only guess that Southgate is implying the older players like Kane, Walker and Trippier are not capable of the intense press. Or, perhaps, he's just referring to Kane. Gary Linekar has strongly argued that Kane has got to change his game and lead a high press, even if he's not the most athletic.

Playing high press isn't the only option for a team, though, it's pretty common in the Premier League. However, at some point, there has to be an intense press, whether that's on the half-way line or beyond. England don't seem to have found that intensity yet.

Yeah, Kane has looked really lethargic. Hes struggled to do anything really except a nice fox in the box finish against Denmark. Off the ball hes been atrocious. Hes getting on, never had be best stamina and he looks unfit to me.

One element that no one is really talking about is in the last few tournaments hes played with Sterling and at Spurs he had Son as a two up front. They would always go well past him and hed drop off. None of our current forwards, apart from maybe Gordon, will look to do that...

But can you drop your most likely goal scorer?

The criticism of England has been totally justified. I think we may end up trying something different in the last game as we have to change something. Getting Gordon on the left side would seem the obvious move, and I do wonder if we might bench Kane to let him rest as effectively we're through...

We're really suffering from not having figured out how we want to play months ago.

Id go for a high press. Get the players with the physical ability to do it on the pitch. Tell Kane if he wants to get back in the team he needs to press, or he is going to be used as a sub late in games when the opposition tires and the press is less critical.

                       Pickford

Walker.     Stones.  Guehi.  Trippier

     Bellingam    Rice.   Foden

        Saka.     Watkins.   Gordon

Just go out and be relentless.

Edited June 21 by joey_big_nose

[Blow-in]

1 hour ago, Ianrally said:

So was Jack Charlton but the Irish had no problem appointing him as manager in what could be described as their finest era. 

Could be??

It was a the best of times.

[Blow-in]

5 minutes ago, Blow-in said:

Could be??

It was a the best of times.

Also Jack invented the high press.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Whatever you want, It's an opinion I have said for plenty of years and I see no reason to change it. The England national football manager should be English. 

Good for yourself. We have plenty of good quality English coaches who could be appoint as our national team manager

and? We had Eriksson and Capello who have won plenty of trophies over the career but unless as England manager. 

Would I have appoint McCullum or Mott? no. 

I didn't mentioned Gallagher in my post so I have no idea why you have mention him.

We don't need to sitting 2 midfielders, but Like I have said from before the tournament started I would play Bellingham next to Rice. Bellingham would play the 8 role like he has done plenty of time before hand. 

Carsley was born in England actually 

John Herdman isn't in charge of Canada anymore, that is Jesse Marsch. He is managing Toronto now. 

Also the list isn't depressing at all but you would appoint another foreign manager. We tried it twice now and no more thanks. 

If you dont want a foreign manager, I sort of get it. Its an archaic view in my opinion, and some of your choices including some random MLS manager and someone who has no senior experience are totally perplexing. And perhaps suggests the fact that English managers worthy of the top job are few and far between.

The argument that "we have tried it twice" is absolutely nonsensical. You are implying that because 2 specific individuals who didnt do very well, that is representative of every non English manager. Those 2 failed because they as individuals failed, they arent representative of some sort of agenda that EVERY non English manager would fail.

It goes without saying that if you opened the field to all managers, you would naturally not even have to mention random MLS no marks and novices in the conversation. If you would rather narrow the field, you would naturally be eliminating a lot of quality names. If you are prepared to do that to maintain the idea of an English manager, fair enough, but dont pretend that any foreign manager would fail as if 2 individuals prove that. They dont.

[davulsukur]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I have told you the benefit. Also we aren't talking about club football at all, but this is England national team manager and he should be English not foreign. 

The team problem is we are far too deep, no out ball, no one running in behind. So changed it like this, Put Bellingham into the 8 role, Kane into the 10 role, Foden on to the right, Gordon on the left with Watkins in the 9 role. Also not having a natural left back is also making us so imbalanced cos no one is attacking down the left side of the tea, 

Let's not the hypothetical at all. I have said what my opinion and I ain't changing it. 

We have 4 or 5 good options to replace Southgate when that time. 

These being Eddie Howe, Graham Potter, Gary O'Neil, John Hardman and Lee Carsley. 

No Mercer, Its an opinion have always hold and always will, its ain't small minded at all, but the England national football manager should be English. Simple as and I ain't changed my opinion at all

Terry Butcher was born in Singapore cos his father was in Royal Navy and was commissioned over there. 

Owen Hargreaves had a English Father Welsh Mother and was born in Canada.  

You haven't given any benefits at all, you're response was "They are English"  

 

[davulsukur]

20 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If you dont want a foreign manager, I sort of get it. Its an archaic view in my opinion, and some of your choices including some random MLS manager and someone who has no senior experience are totally perplexing. And perhaps suggests the fact that English managers worthy of the top job are few and far between.

The argument that "we have tried it twice" is absolutely nonsensical. You are implying that because 2 specific individuals who didnt do very well, that is representative of every non English manager. Those 2 failed because they as individuals failed, they arent representative of some sort of agenda that EVERY non English manager would fail.

It goes without saying that if you opened the field to all managers, you would naturally not even have to mention random MLS no marks and novices in the conversation. If you would rather narrow the field, you would naturally be eliminating a lot of quality names. If you are prepared to do that to maintain the idea of an English manager, fair enough, but dont pretend that any foreign manager would fail as if 2 individuals prove that. They dont.

Just to double down on ruling out potential candidates because they aren't English. He's championing Howe (a former Dingle he wouldn't have at Rovers!?!), Potter and O'Neil, none of whom have any international managerial experience, over Klopp (not saying he would take the job) who has achieved more than all 3 put together at club level.

[roversfan99]

23 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Just to double down on ruling out potential candidates because they aren't English. He's championing Howe (a former Dingle he wouldn't have at Rovers!?!), Potter and O'Neil, none of whom have any international managerial experience, over Klopp (not saying he would take the job) who has achieved more than all 3 put together at club level.

The novice who chose to represent Republic of Ireland is the funniest choice. Followed by a man who has never managed domestically, just the New Zealand womens team, the Canada womens and then mens team and now a job in the MLS. Bizarre.

[bluebruce]

I've seen some mentions in this thread that we should play a high press. Don't set yourself up for a fall, he has no intentions of playing it. I watched enough of his interview after the Denmark game to know that. He said something like we don't have the players to play a high press. Which I can only assume is because he has no intention of dropping Kane.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, Mercer said:

Pretty sure you are in the minority.  Get a poll going on here and let's see who is right!

I'm sure you can poll yourself 

1 hour ago, davulsukur said:

You haven't given any benefits at all, you're response was "They are English"  

 

I did. 

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

If you dont want a foreign manager, I sort of get it. Its an archaic view in my opinion, and some of your choices including some random MLS manager and someone who has no senior experience are totally perplexing. And perhaps suggests the fact that English managers worthy of the top job are few and far between.

The argument that "we have tried it twice" is absolutely nonsensical. You are implying that because 2 specific individuals who didnt do very well, that is representative of every non English manager. Those 2 failed because they as individuals failed, they arent representative of some sort of agenda that EVERY non English manager would fail.

It goes without saying that if you opened the field to all managers, you would naturally not even have to mention random MLS no marks and novices in the conversation. If you would rather narrow the field, you would naturally be eliminating a lot of quality names. If you are prepared to do that to maintain the idea of an English manager, fair enough, but dont pretend that any foreign manager would fail as if 2 individuals prove that. They dont.

I think given my opinion on who should manage England and it's should an Englishman. Simple as. It's time you and others accept that opinion even if you disagree with if you 

[jim mk2]

7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

I think given my opinion on who should manage England and it's should an Englishman. Simple as. It's time you and others accept that opinion even if you disagree with if you 

....... but not when it comes to cricket. Explain

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

10 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

We all know he was stood in an offside position but he wasn't "interfering" according to the definition.

I thought the Dutch player was near enough to the keeper to be classed as “ interfering. “  Other people have different views, I understand that. Ultimately the VAR officials come to the same conclusion as I did, but it was obviously a close decision.

[Gav]

9 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

If you dont want a foreign manager, I sort of get it. Its an archaic view in my opinion, but dont pretend that any foreign manager would fail as if 2 individuals prove that. They dont.

History shows us that national football teams with mangers from that country win the major tournaments, that isn't by accident.

Whilst I want the best man for the job, which we apparently had with Capello, I want him to be English unless the pond is dry. You have to be English to understand the country, the history, the hurt and the expectation of us fans, a foreign manager would never understand that and that in part led to Capello's downfall.

 

[roversfan99]

17 minutes ago, Gav said:

History shows us that national football teams with mangers from that country win the major tournaments, that isn't by accident.

Whilst I want the best man for the job, which we apparently had with Capello, I want him to be English unless the pond is dry. You have to be English to understand the country, the history, the hurt and the expectation of us fans, a foreign manager would never understand that and that in part led to Capello's downfall.

 

That will be the case as most nations are managed by people of the same nationality.

Thats not why Capello failed. Seemingly his old fashioned man management style caused issues. Not his nationality.

[DE.]

Quote

“We are all so desperate to win, to be leaders, to go out there and give people memories for lifetimes and sometimes I maybe feel like we put too much pressure on ourselves where we could just go out there and let it just take care of ourselves," Rice said.

I don't really understand this comment. How is going out there and playing walking football, as well as retreating into defence as soon as we go ahead, creating memories for anybody? I could understand these comments if we'd been a bit kamikaze and reckless in the first two games, but there's been no leadership, desperation to win, or desire to create memories in either of our first two performances. 

[matt83]

The more I watch of this tournament the more disheartened I’m becoming. Thought had a decent chance going in. The French still head and shoulders above us albeit not their best start, but the more I see of zee Germans particularly at home, the Spanish, the Dutch they’re all better than us. Then there’s hoping the Portuguese, Italians and belgium don’t grow into the tournament.

I feel a lot like how I did during Mowbray’s last season around Xmas. Comfortably in the play offs but most of us knew it was going to end in a run of results that resulted in us dropping like a stone and out totally. 

Same thing here the first time we come across one of the above we’re out. Again it’s square pegs and round holes and a manager to arrogant or stupid to see it.

Edited June 22 by matt83

[Gav]

18 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

That will be the case as most nations are managed by people of the same nationality.

Thats not why Capello failed. Seemingly his old fashioned man management style caused issues. Not his nationality.

For a very good reason, its got 100% success rate on the world stage, no foreign manager has ever won the world cup since it started in 1930, but plenty have tried. It has happened in Euros, but only once I believe, when Greece won in 2004 they had German Otto Rehhagel in charge. 

All that said, with the pool of top quality English managers seemingly getting less and less, it won't be long before our only options are to go for a foreign manager and that will be very sad day indeed.