England - Thomas Tuchel then…

[Mattyblue]

They haven’t played well but are in the semis.

Why? Well to go *some way* to explain it, it’s helped that they’ve got lucky with the draw. But it’s only helped, of course you still have to beat the sides in front of you, just like if Rovers ended up in a cup semi final on the back of avoiding the big sides, nowt wrong with that, that’s cup/tournament football for you - it’s not a league where luck absolutely doesn’t play a role after 38/46 matches, you end up exactly where you deserve. I’m not belittling at all, as football is a results business, just like I wouldn’t give a monkeys if we ended up at Wembley after only beating lower league sides.

Odd that some on here resolutely won’t accept England have been fortunate, at all. Like DE said I don’t know why this has ended up being a debate really, but I suppose this is brfcs 😅

 

Edited July 7 by Mattyblue

[rigger]

12 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

You’re taking the phrase too literally. You can’t manufacture luck, but you can put yourself in a position to take advantage of opportunities that arise. Hence, you make your own luck.

When I go to the pub later and get hit on by some beautiful young women it’s because I went to the pub instead of sitting in my house in my soiled undies. 😉

Anyway, there  have been scientific studies that prove you can make your own luck. 

Just make sure she has secured her guide dog properly.

[roversfan99]

6 hours ago, M_B said:

We should have been playing France to get to the final, they were pre tournament favourites. It isn't England's "luck" that we aren't playing them, it is down to French failings. 

 

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

performances count for nothing in results based Football. Winning is all that matters

I have no idea why you have bought me into your discussion with another posters. 

Our performance last night was much better than previous games and we have plan and tactical plan and we won but as par usually you want to put a downer on people happiness like roverandout

Bollocks! Its has nothing to do with luck. We aren't responsible for the way the draw is. Sven couldn't deliver in tournament football and Southgate has delivered 3 semi finals what did previously England manager since Terry Venables did in 96? 

Why do neither of you seem to grasp that results outside of our control falling in a way whereby the better sides have consistently ended up playing one another on the opposite side of the draw is lucky. France not winning their (much harder) group might be a failing on their part, but to England it is lucky.

Its good for us, we would rather be lucky with draws than not. But equally, as much as Sven struggled, he got very difficult knockout draws and was unlucky to face Brazil and then Portugal twice. Colombia, Ukraine, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Slovakia, Senegal, they are some very favourable ties to get deep into knockout football. Obviously most of them are at least decent, and you still have to beat them, but there are no big hitters and when we did meet one, bar a Germany in transition, we came up short.

The tactical plan was flawed. We had no balance on the left, we had no runners in behind, we again struggled to create chances and we again thankfully had a moment of individual quality to get us into extra time. We then struggled in extra time with Southgate not redressing the imbalances caused by the necessity to stick loads of attackers on to get the equaliser. I dont think the performance was good or the tactics were good, Southgate would say they are, but although we went through, there are some big concerns.

Yes we won, and yes that is all that is important. And no one is saying dont enjoy it, we were all delighted when Trent scored the winning penalty. But this is a messageboard where we discuss beyond the binary win or lose outcome. Chaddy, I recall you showering Rovers with praise when we lost to Burnley but "played well." Surely all that mattered then was that we had lost? 

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would have no problem with Southgate staying on. 

I see that Gary Lineker on his podcast saying Lampard should be option to replace Southgate if he goes. 

Lampard 😂 Lineker just bigging up his BBC mate. Do you agree with him?

[wilsdenrover]

29 minutes ago, Forever Blue said:

You’re taking the phrase too literally. You can’t manufacture luck, but you can put yourself in a position to take advantage of opportunities that arise. Hence, you make your own luck.

When I go to the pub later and get hit on by some beautiful young women it’s because I went to the pub instead of sitting in my house in my soiled undies. 😉

Anyway, there  have been scientific studies that prove you can make your own luck. 

But it’s luck she forgot her glasses  😁😁
 

edit - @rigger beat me to it - just my luck 

Edited July 7 by wilsdenrover

[jim mk2]

England have become like the old West Germany and Germany teams in knowing how to muddle through tournaments and getting the needed results without playing particularly well. I always admired them for doing that and now England are the same - although we haven’t yet translated it into tournament wins like the Germans did. Time to deliver Mr Southgate

[M_B]

26 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Why do neither of you seem to grasp that results outside of our control falling in a way whereby the better sides have consistently ended up playing one another on the opposite side of the draw is lucky. France not winning their (much harder) group might be a failing on their part, but to England it is lucky.

Its good for us, we would rather be lucky with draws than not. But equally, as much as Sven struggled, he got very difficult knockout draws and was unlucky to face Brazil and then Portugal twice. Colombia, Ukraine, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Slovakia, Senegal, they are some very favourable ties to get deep into knockout football. Obviously most of them are at least decent, and you still have to beat them, but there are no big hitters and when we did meet one, bar a Germany in transition, we came up short.

The tactical plan was flawed. We had no balance on the left, we had no runners in behind, we again struggled to create chances and we again thankfully had a moment of individual quality to get us into extra time. We then struggled in extra time with Southgate not redressing the imbalances caused by the necessity to stick loads of attackers on to get the equaliser. I dont think the performance was good or the tactics were good, Southgate would say they are, but although we went through, there are some big concerns.

Yes we won, and yes that is all that is important. And no one is saying dont enjoy it, we were all delighted when Trent scored the winning penalty. But this is a messageboard where we discuss beyond the binary win or lose outcome. Chaddy, I recall you showering Rovers with praise when we lost to Burnley but "played well." Surely all that mattered then was that we had lost? 

Lampard 😂 Lineker just bigging up his BBC mate. Do you agree with him?

Pulling a perceived easier team out of a bag could be seen as lucky. 

England, France, Holland and Spain played who they played because of their results. England were drawn to potentially play France in the semis, the pre tournament favourites. I don't remember you saying they were unlucky. 

There seems to be this need to put Southgate's relative "success" down to luck, rather than acknowledge that he has actually done a more than adequate job. 

[chaddyrovers]

40 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Why do neither of you seem to grasp that results outside of our control falling in a way whereby the better sides have consistently ended up playing one another on the opposite side of the draw is lucky. France not winning their (much harder) group might be a failing on their part, but to England it is lucky.

Its good for us, we would rather be lucky with draws than not. But equally, as much as Sven struggled, he got very difficult knockout draws and was unlucky to face Brazil and then Portugal twice. Colombia, Ukraine, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Slovakia, Senegal, they are some very favourable ties to get deep into knockout football. Obviously most of them are at least decent, and you still have to beat them, but there are no big hitters and when we did meet one, bar a Germany in transition, we came up short.

The tactical plan was flawed. We had no balance on the left, we had no runners in behind, we again struggled to create chances and we again thankfully had a moment of individual quality to get us into extra time. We then struggled in extra time with Southgate not redressing the imbalances caused by the necessity to stick loads of attackers on to get the equaliser. I dont think the performance was good or the tactics were good, Southgate would say they are, but although we went through, there are some big concerns.

Yes we won, and yes that is all that is important. And no one is saying dont enjoy it, we were all delighted when Trent scored the winning penalty. But this is a messageboard where we discuss beyond the binary win or lose outcome. Chaddy, I recall you showering Rovers with praise when we lost to Burnley but "played well." Surely all that mattered then was that we had lost? 

Some people would say you created your luck in sport. We are through to the semi finals for the third time in 4 tournaments under Southgate but it all down to luck of draw compare to Eriksson who had a tough draw. We don't the control the draw, maybe in the world cup draw we should have FIFA to make sure we have toughest draw possible then it would stop you using this excuse. I find really annoying how you enjoy(which is seems to me) putting your country, players and Southgate down and everything is down to luck. Maybe it was luck that we won the PL in 94-95 season or our Worthington Cup win in 2002? Just all excuses from you everytime. 

Yes we would play different line ups and formations in games if we was England manager but Southgate is in charge and he has delivered his third semi finals in 4 tournaments. How can you not actually be happy and enjoy this success? 

There is no outstanding teams in this tournaments and the final 4 teams deserved to there. Yes they have poor games but still managed to get through which is what Tournament football all about. 

40 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Lampard 😂 Lineker just bigging up his BBC mate. Do you agree with him?

Unlike yourself who didn't answer a simple question when asked, I did name who I would go for which was Wolves head coach Gary O'Neil 

[Mattyblue]

🤦‍♂️ You can’t ‘create your own luck’, it’s just a turn of phrase for a team that has played well/worked hard.

[roversfan99]

41 minutes ago, M_B said:

Pulling a perceived easier team out of a bag could be seen as lucky. 

England, France, Holland and Spain played who they played because of their results. England were drawn to potentially play France in the semis, the pre tournament favourites. I don't remember you saying they were unlucky. 

There seems to be this need to put Southgate's relative "success" down to luck, rather than acknowledge that he has actually done a more than adequate job. 

It could be perceived as lucky, yes. The draw has transpired to be less difficult than it potentially could have been.

21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Some people would say you created your luck in sport. We are through to the semi finals for the third time in 4 tournaments under Southgate but it all down to luck of draw compare to Eriksson who had a tough draw. We don't the control the draw, maybe in the world cup draw we should have FIFA to make sure we have toughest draw possible then it would stop you using this excuse. I find really annoying how you enjoy(which is seems to me) putting your country, players and Southgate down and everything is down to luck. Maybe it was luck that we won the PL in 94-95 season or our Worthington Cup win in 2002? Just all excuses from you everytime. 

Yes we would play different line ups and formations in games if we was England manager but Southgate is in charge and he has delivered his third semi finals in 4 tournaments. How can you not actually be happy and enjoy this success? 

There is no outstanding teams in this tournaments and the final 4 teams deserved to there. Yes they have poor games but still managed to get through which is what Tournament football all about. 

Unlike yourself who didn't answer a simple question when asked, I did name who I would go for which was Wolves head coach Gary O'Neil 

I know we dont control the draw, and thats why it is luck based. Factors out of our control determine who we get in each round.

Ive said before, a league campaign is less reliant on luck because every team plays every other team home and away. There is no chance that you can have a favourable draw. The Worthington Cup was more comparable because again you are reliant on the draw. We played a non Premier League side in the Semi Finals, that helped for example.

If you can win the cup then it doesnt make it any less enjoyable and you are muddying the water by suggesting that me saying hes had favourable draws would make it unenjoyable. Id rather have the easiest draw possible and I never said I wasnt happy.

[M_B]

14 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

It could be perceived as lucky, yes. The draw has transpired to be less difficult than it potentially could have been.

I know we dont control the draw, and thats why it is luck based. Factors out of our control determine who we get in each round.

Ive said before, a league campaign is less reliant on luck because every team plays every other team home and away. There is no chance that you can have a favourable draw. The Worthington Cup was more comparable because again you are reliant on the draw. We played a non Premier League side in the Semi Finals, that helped for example.

If you can win the cup then it doesnt make it any less enjoyable and you are muddying the water by suggesting that me saying hes had favourable draws would make it unenjoyable. Id rather have the easiest draw possible and I never said I wasnt happy.

Aye well, we'd be unlucky to get this far then go out to Holland. 

Edited July 7 by M_B

[chaddyrovers]

14 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I know we dont control the draw, and thats why it is luck based. Factors out of our control determine who we get in each round.

So why be so negative then? 

14 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Ive said before, a league campaign is less reliant on luck because every team plays every other team home and away. There is no chance that you can have a favourable draw. The Worthington Cup was more comparable because again you are reliant on the draw. We played a non Premier League side in the Semi Finals, that helped for example.

If you can win the cup then it doesnt make it any less enjoyable and you are muddying the water by suggesting that me saying hes had favourable draws would make it unenjoyable. Id rather have the easiest draw possible and I never said I wasnt happy.

Its yourself who is saying that we have favourable draws under Southgate and downplaying his achievement of reaching 3 semi  finals in 4 tournaments, where Eriksson had a tough draw 

Your posts make it sounds like you aren't happy with us reaching another Semi final

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

So why be so negative then? 

Its yourself who is saying that we have favourable draws under Southgate and downplaying his achievement of reaching 3 semi  finals in 4 tournaments, where Eriksson had a tough draw 

Your posts make it sounds like you aren't happy with us reaching another Semi final

Most of the people on here who appear to be “ negative “ are “ negative “ because the football we’ve been playing has been dog shit by and and large. It’s like when Mowbray got us promoted, we play well for about 20 minutes. That’s on a good day.

It’s like asking “ why are people so negative about the Venkies ? “ 

People are “ negative “ because we’ve had shit tipped onto our heads for 14 years.

[roversfan99]

26 minutes ago, M_B said:

Aye well, we'd be unlucky to get this far then go out to Holland. 

Holland arent one of the very elite teams but they are a strong side. If we beat them then although it wont change the fact that we have had favourable draws overall, it would change the narrative a bit that Southgate comes up short when he plays the better sides.

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

So why be so negative then? 

Its yourself who is saying that we have favourable draws under Southgate and downplaying his achievement of reaching 3 semi  finals in 4 tournaments, where Eriksson had a tough draw 

Your posts make it sounds like you aren't happy with us reaching another Semi final

They have been favourable draws. And id prefer favourable draws.

Edited July 7 by roversfan99

[RevidgeBlue]

All or nothing now - I personally don't rate Southgate in the slightest, or even like him, and think we're progressing despite rather than because of him and also  think we've stunk the tournament out and been incredibly fortunate to reach this stage. That said if we can win the thing the history books will record the fact and in fifty years time, no-one will care less that we were crap or within 80 seconds of going out against Slovakia.

If that happens Southgate will be entitled to put two fingers up at his critics and say "I told you you were over-reacting". On the other hand if we lose on Wednesday or Sunday without at least putting in a vastly improved performance I think his Critics will be justified in saying overall its been an absolutely abysmal showing on a par with anything served up by his recent predecessors.

An incredibly fine line between hero and absolute zero.

[chaddyrovers]

12 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Most of the people on here who appear to be “ negative “ are “ negative “ because the football we’ve been playing has been dog shit by and and large.

yet we are in semi finals and that is all that matters

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Holland arent one of the very elite teams but they are a strong side. If we beat them then although it wont change the fact that we have had favourable draws overall, it would change the narrative a bit that Southgate comes up short when he plays the better sides.

There is no elite teams anymore. France was bloody awful on Friday. Spain aren't that special either. Germany similar. 

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

They have been favourable draws. And id prefer favourable draws.

Cheer up and stop downplaying everything all the time. So moving on what is your starting 11 for the semi-final against Netherlands? 

Edited July 7 by chaddyrovers

[simongarnerisgod]

15 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

There is no elite teams anymore. France was bloody awful on Friday. Spain aren't that special either. Germany

take off your southgate coloured glasses,spain are by the far the best side in the competition and the only side to look a level above everyone else,though the dutch seem to be looking dangerous as well,unless we play at a higher tempo i doubt we`ll beat any of the other semi finalists

[M_B]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Holland arent one of the very elite teams but they are a strong side. If we beat them then although it wont change the fact that we have had favourable draws overall, it would change the narrative a bit that Southgate comes up short when he plays the better sides.

They have been favourable draws. And id prefer favourable draws.

Ours was the "strongest" half of the draw, but we've come through it to reach the semis. If we do get anything which is seen to be "favourable", we've deserved it. 

Edited July 7 by M_B

[Blow-in]

5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would have no problem with Southgate staying on. 

I see that Gary Lineker on his podcast saying Lampard should be option to replace Southgate if he goes. 

OMG let this happen, he can have Gerrard as assistant manager and Rooney can be the waterboy?

[Blow-in]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

 

 

Lampard 😂 Lineker just bigging up his BBC mate. Do you agree with him?

Trying to make up for calling him a baldy cunt?

[Blow-in]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Some people would say you created your luck in sport. We are through to the semi finals for the third time in 4 tournaments under Southgate but it all down to luck of draw compare to Eriksson who had a tough draw. We don't the control the draw, maybe in the world cup draw we should have FIFA to make sure we have toughest draw possible then it would stop you using this excuse. I find really annoying how you enjoy(which is seems to me) putting your country, players and Southgate down and everything is down to luck. Maybe it was luck that we won the PL in 94-95 season or our Worthington Cup win in 2002? Just all excuses from you everytime. 

Yes we would play different line ups and formations in games if we was England manager but Southgate is in charge and he has delivered his third semi finals in 4 tournaments. How can you not actually be happy and enjoy this success? 

There is no outstanding teams in this tournaments and the final 4 teams deserved to there. Yes they have poor games but still managed to get through which is what Tournament football all about. 

Unlike yourself who didn't answer a simple question when asked, I did name who I would go for which was Wolves head coach Gary O'Neil 

Spain have been the outstanding team. I don't think anyone but you would argue that.

[Blow-in]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

All or nothing now - I personally don't rate Southgate in the slightest, or even like him, and think we're progressing despite rather than because of him and also  think we've stunk the tournament out and been incredibly fortunate to reach this stage. That said if we can win the thing the history books will record the fact and in fifty years time, no-one will care less that we were crap or within 80 seconds of going out against Slovakia.

If that happens Southgate will be entitled to put two fingers up at his critics and say "I told you you were over-reacting". On the other hand if we lose on Wednesday or Sunday without at least putting in a vastly improved performance I think his Critics will be justified in saying overall its been an absolutely abysmal showing on a par with anything served up by his recent predecessors.

An incredibly fine line between hero and absolute zero.

Here's the thing, if Southgate wins the tournement, will Man City and Real Madrid be going head to head to secure his contract?

I thought not, more likely he will end up with Palace or Burnley or Middlesbourgh. Why is that?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 minutes ago, Blow-in said:

Here's the thing, if Southgate wins the tournement, will Man City and Real Madrid be going head to head to secure his contract?

I thought not, more likely he will end up with Palace or Burnley or Middlesbourgh. Why is that?

Go on the fans sites of most clubs in the top two divisions. None of them would want him. 

[DE.]

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Go on the fans sites of most clubs in the top two divisions. None of them would want him. 

He lacks what's needed to be a good club manager, particularly when it comes to in game management and tactical knowledge. However, his ability to quickly create a unified environment and avoid significant controversy makes him a good fit as an international manager. His weaknesses are often masked by him having a wealth of top level talent available to pull out moments of magic - see Bellingham against Slovakia and Saka against Switzerland. You don't have that at many clubs except the very best, and at those you need more than just good man management to really succeed. These clubs want trophies, and don't see second place or semi finals as "success". They also wouldn't accept being beaten almost every time they come up against a club of similar stature. 

[speeeeeeedie]

I've good skimmed few a good few pages of classic BRFCS England bashing. They won and are through, which is all that matters. 

I read a lot of posts before the game about how good Switzerland were, and that England would struggle against them. England's performance was an improvement on previous games and were the better side for all but 15 minutes in the second half. For those who think they are suddenly going to turn into Brazil 1970, it's not going to happen. Southgate plays it tight and hopes to win the margins. 

England are in the semi final thanks to Bellingham's brilliance and a well drilled set of penalty takers. 

Southgate came in for rightful criticism this tournament, but he's using that to his advantage. He is an excellent man manager but does need to be better managing in game situations, something I've charged him with for years.

He also won't change much for Wednesday's game. Kane is struggling but will play. This system does stifle him. He likes payers who run past him, think Son and Sane, but all his England team mates like dropping in or cutting inside.

I reckon that Guehi will come back in for Konsa (who played well), and Shaw for Trippier. The rest will be the same who started yesterday's game. 

 

[DE.]

Why does expecting more than one shot on target a game equate to wanting England to be 1970s Brazil? A bizarre extreme to take it to when most people I imagine would be happy with the game just being somewhat entertaining to watch, rather than a dreadful slog.