England - Thomas Tuchel then…

[K-Hod]

3 hours ago, Forever Blue said:

And it’s full of non-English players.

With respect, you’ve swallowed the Prem hype. Apart from that appalling spell were the likes of Geoff Thomas and Keith Curle were being picked, we’ve always had some quality players. Until now that has never translated into a consistently effective National team. 
 

And I’d say the defence we have now is poor in relation to some of the players we’ve been able to call on in the past. Stones and Trippier are average, as is Pickford. Guehi being are best defender speaks volumes. 
 

Id argue the CM is hardly vintage either and we’ve got a bloke up front who can’t run. 
 

This squad is hyped because Bellingham plays for RM  and because Saka and Foden play well their clubs most weeks. 
 

International football is completely different. 

 

Stones is average? That’s a whopping piece of bait right there.

[roverandout]

Stones was phenomenal in the champions league final.  He's a world class defender 

[roverandout]

3 hours ago, Forever Blue said:

And it’s full of non-English players.

With respect, you’ve swallowed the Prem hype. Apart from that appalling spell were the likes of Geoff Thomas and Keith Curle were being picked, we’ve always had some quality players. Until now that has never translated into a consistently effective National team. 
 

And I’d say the defence we have now is poor in relation to some of the players we’ve been able to call on in the past. Stones and Trippier are average, as is Pickford. Guehi being are best defender speaks volumes. 
 

Id argue the CM is hardly vintage either and we’ve got a bloke up front who can’t run. 
 

This squad is hyped because Bellingham plays for RM  and because Saka and Foden play well their clubs most weeks. 
 

International football is completely different. 

 

You underestimate Guehi.  He's been brilliant for Palace the last couple of seasons 

[Dreams of 1995]

Aside from a fit and consistent left back, the only thing this squad is really missing is a world class centre back. If you had a centre half of the likes of Ferdinand, Terry or Campbell, you'd see a marked improvement in our midfield also

I think this is the best England squad in my lifetime, even if the individual players from the Sven era were better. It wasn't so much a team then. The depth was also quite poor whereas now we have players that can come on and completely change the game. When injuries struck with Rooney and Beckham, it often marked the end of our chances. Now, you can be confident somebody else will step up

[Forever Blue]

11 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Stones is average? That’s a whopping piece of bait right there.

Bait? I’m not sure why my opinion is bait? He also doesn’t get picked at CB as a matter of course for city and gets shunted into DM. 
 

His poor positioning and letting the ball dribble under his foot was also why Switzerland scored against us. 

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, roverandout said:

Far more depth. Outwith the starting 11 we had crap like vassell Lennon Milner to come off the bench. Now we have players like palmer Gordon Wharton Watkins etc to call on. The likes of sterling sancho would have walked into the 04/06 squad 

 

1 hour ago, roverandout said:

Pickford is top class better than anything 20 years ago. Stones would definitely compare with Terry.  Rice is what England lacked 20 years ago. Gerrard and lampard didn't work together.  We had a world class 11 back then but shit substitutes

I think your natural bias is making you think that the current crop is better comparative to that generation than it actually is.

You have pin pointed areas of perceived weakness. I think Rice is very good at what he does (especially for his club, the way he is needed for England hinders him to an extent) but what we lacked then could have been resolved by using one of 2 excellent holding midfielders. Michael Carrick would have compliment both that squad and the current squad perfectly, a top player at the highest level for many years. Hargreaves was also a very good holding midfielder although injuries meant it wasnt for as long. The midfield options we had then were incredible.

We also had strength in depth at centre back then as strong as any country. Rio Ferdinand, Sol Campbell and John Terry were all top class. Stones is below all of them and there is no shame in that. The likes of King, Carragher and Woodgate would all walk into the current side, top players.

You mention players like Gordon, good players who have had a good season and would provide good balance but is there much difference between him and say Shaun Wright Phillips?

Both squads have some excellent players in there, with notable issues in certain areas.

[roverandout]

26 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

I think your natural bias is making you think that the current crop is better comparative to that generation than it actually is.

You have pin pointed areas of perceived weakness. I think Rice is very good at what he does (especially for his club, the way he is needed for England hinders him to an extent) but what we lacked then could have been resolved by using one of 2 excellent holding midfielders. Michael Carrick would have compliment both that squad and the current squad perfectly, a top player at the highest level for many years. Hargreaves was also a very good holding midfielder although injuries meant it wasnt for as long. The midfield options we had then were incredible.

We also had strength in depth at centre back then as strong as any country. Rio Ferdinand, Sol Campbell and John Terry were all top class. Stones is below all of them and there is no shame in that. The likes of King, Carragher and Woodgate would all walk into the current side, top players.

You mention players like Gordon, good players who have had a good season and would provide good balance but is there much difference between him and say Shaun Wright Phillips?

Both squads have some excellent players in there, with notable issues in certain areas.

Wright Philips was a player that played off the cuff. Gordon has far more to his game.  I'm not disagreeing with u but we have players not in this squad that would walk into the golden generation squad 

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, Forever Blue said:

Bait? I’m not sure why my opinion is bait? He also doesn’t get picked at CB as a matter of course for city and gets shunted into DM. 
 

His poor positioning and letting the ball dribble under his foot was also why Switzerland scored against us. 

What chance did he have to react when walker Lost his man. Blaming stones for that goal is ridiculous 

Edited July 8 by roverandout

[Forever Blue]

15 minutes ago, roverandout said:

What chance did he have to react when walker Lost his man. Blaming stones for that goal is ridiculous 

He let the ball run under his foot. It’s ridiculous not to acknowledge that. 

[Lancaster Rover]

Stones is world class, the only reason he hasn’t played as much at City this year is down to injury. When fit he is probably one of the first names on the team sheet. 
 

England lack a world class CM on the pitch, there is one from Wilpshire not getting a kick though.

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Forever Blue said:

He also doesn’t get picked at CB as a matter of course for city and gets shunted into DM. 

I mean, that just isn't true. He had an injury early in the season and that allowed a couple of other players to stake a claim, but he's been a mainstay in a City side that have been the best in Europe for several seasons. There's a reason why they've been happy to let other centrebacks leave in that time period.

He's also clearly in the best possible line-up and used in big matches whenever fit. 

[roverandout]

39 minutes ago, Lancaster Rover said:

Stones is world class, the only reason he hasn’t played as much at City this year is down to injury. When fit he is probably one of the first names on the team sheet. 
 

England lack a world class CM on the pitch, there is one from Wilpshire not getting a kick though.

True but the Netherlands lack any world class midfielders. We should win that battle if we start rice and mainoo. Had de jong been available I would fear for our chances 

[Lancaster Rover]

23 minutes ago, roverandout said:

True but the Netherlands lack any world class midfielders. We should win that battle if we start rice and mainoo. Had de jong been available I would fear for our chances 

Xavi simons is well on his way to being world class

[speeeeeeedie]

25 minutes ago, roverandout said:

True but the Netherlands lack any world class midfielders. We should win that battle if we start rice and mainoo. Had de jong been available I would fear for our chances 

I agree with that. Reijnders isn't up to it. Neither is Depuy up front. Gakpo is playing well, but you'd think that Kyle Walker will be able to keep him quiet. 

 

[roverandout]

8 minutes ago, Lancaster Rover said:

Xavi simons is well on his way to being world class

More of an attacking midfielder 

[Lancaster Rover]

48 minutes ago, roverandout said:

More of an attacking midfielder 

True, but the OP said no world class midfielders rather than CM’s. I think Simons could cause England a massive headache 

[roverandout]

45 minutes ago, Lancaster Rover said:

True, but the OP said no world class midfielders rather than CM’s. I think Simons could cause England a massive headache 

That was me. I meant central midfield players 

[DeeCee]

Wouldn't say Stones is world class, very good but does have a mistake in him, unlike Maguire who has several every game.

[Lancaster Rover]

2 hours ago, roverandout said:

That was me. I meant central midfield players 

Sorry, my mistake. Agreed, maybe an argument had De Jong been fit but not sure he’s in the world class bracket with the last few injury ravaged seasons he’s had 

[Upside Down]

10 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Pretty much nailed it there. In general under Southgate as soon as We've played a "top" team We've been beaten which I would put down to a combination of his innate caution and lack of proactiveness during games rather than the quality of our players.

The guy must wear a life jacket in the bath. 

Hahaha that's gold.

[simongarnerisgod]

4 hours ago, speeeeeeedie said:

I agree with that. Reijnders isn't up to it. Neither is Depuy up front. Gakpo is playing well, but you'd think that Kyle Walker will be able to keep him quiet. 

 

i can`t imagine walker will fancy gakpo running at him at every opportunity,one thing the dutch have is a lot of pace in attack,we need to up our intensity,going up another level,walking football won`t work this time,it`s seen us nearly get knocked out twice against inferior teams than the dutch

[RoverDom]

Note sure if these have been posted before but the AI clips of Southgate have me tittering

 

 

 

 

[roversfan99]

5 hours ago, speeeeeeedie said:

I agree with that. Reijnders isn't up to it. Neither is Depuy up front. Gakpo is playing well, but you'd think that Kyle Walker will be able to keep him quiet. 

 

I think it is harsh to say that Reijnders isnt up to it, he has looked good during the tournament driving through midfield with Schouten next to him. They obviously miss De Jong and Koopemeiners but it should be an equal midfield battle.

Walker is the best at dealing one on one with pace out wide but he can switch off as we saw for the Swiss goal. Gakpo running at Walker isnt necessarily the worry but Gakpo is really clever at popping up at the back post to score so we need to hope that Walker doesnt switch off. I almost feel like Walker would prefer to be up against a Vinicius or an Mbappe because he can neutralise their speed.

[roverandout]

11 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I think it is harsh to say that Reijnders isnt up to it, he has looked good during the tournament driving through midfield with Schouten next to him. They obviously miss De Jong and Koopemeiners but it should be an equal midfield battle.

Walker is the best at dealing one on one with pace out wide but he can switch off as we saw for the Swiss goal. Gakpo running at Walker isnt necessarily the worry but Gakpo is really clever at popping up at the back post to score so we need to hope that Walker doesnt switch off. I almost feel like Walker would prefer to be up against a Vinicius or an Mbappe because he can neutralise their speed.

Even the Dutch fans have said their own midfield is poor 

[ABBEY]

cmon Spain