England - Thomas Tuchel then…

[roverandout]

1 minute ago, Displaced Rover said:

Nonsense. Just English bias 

Not nonsense.  Best player in Germany best player in Spain. Best player in England.  Best rightback in the world.  Saka would walk into any team in the world. Palmer Chelsea best player.  Rice one of the best in his position.  Please tell me what areas Spain Portugal Germany France are superior in

[AllRoverAsia]

11 minutes ago, M_B said:

I couldn't believe they didn't review the yellow, seen players sent off for a lot less. 

Yes, that was a straight red

[simongarnerisgod]

Just now, roverandout said:

Not nonsense.  Best player in Germany best player in Spain. Best player in England.  Best rightback in the world.  Saka would walk into any team in the world. Palmer Chelsea best player.  Rice one of the best in his position.  Please tell me what areas Spain Portugal Germany France are superior in

not a bit of english biasness there🤣

[matt83]

1 minute ago, simongarnerisgod said:

our manager is our biggest handicap,as someone memorably quoted the other night,he`s so risk averse he wears a life jacket in the bath,was a fantastic quote that!!!!!!!!!!!

Can you imagine Southgate even starting yamal. 16 years old no way. 

[pick32]

France aren’t any better then England 

[roverandout]

Just now, simongarnerisgod said:

not a bit of english biasness there🤣

Not biasness just fact.  I've admitted we've been shit but to claim we're inferior to any of those teams is just BULLSHIT 

[RTM08]

11 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Not nonsense.  Best player in Germany best player in Spain. Best player in England.  Best rightback in the world.  Saka would walk into any team in the world. Palmer Chelsea best player.  Rice one of the best in his position.  Please tell me what areas Spain Portugal Germany France are superior in

This is the kind of attitude that followed the "Golden Generation" of the 2000's. Individual brilliance does not a good team make, and so far this new lot are showing it. Do they have the potential to be better? Sure. 

But Spain have been consistently good so far this tournament and we've been consistently poor, so they would be clear favourites to win. France I agree would perhaps be a more even game as I think they've been poor up until now, especially considering they have a relatively strong squad.

[matt83]

Southgate is the luckiest manager ever. No question about it. Almost every time we’ve come up against a remotely equal/better side to us in a major tournament we’ve lost. 2018 lost to a superior Belgium side twice and a slightly worse Croatia. 2020 beat a worse German side (who were riding a low) fair dos though but lost to a fairly equal Italy and at home. In no small part to tactics once went ahead. 2022 lost to a better France where gave a better account than most expected. 2024 step forward Holland who are fairly equal on paper…

These groups of players might only come around once every couple of decades yet with this one we’ve had bloody Southgate scabbing his way to uncharted territory. To have his luck on a half way decent manager and these players would be too much to ask I suppose.  

[M_B]

4 minutes ago, matt83 said:

Southgate is the luckiest manager ever. No question about it. Almost every time we’ve come up against a remotely equal/better side to us in a major tournament we’ve lost. 2018 lost to a superior Belgium side twice and a slightly worse Croatia. 2020 beat a worse German side (who were riding a low) fair dos though but lost to a fairly equal Italy and at home. In no small part to tactics once went ahead. 2022 lost to a better France where gave a better account than most expected. 2024 step forward Holland who are fairly equal on paper…

These groups of players might only come around once every couple of decades yet with this one we’ve had bloody Southgate scabbing his way to uncharted territory. To have his luck on a half way decent manager and these players would be too much to ask I suppose.  

There are younger supporters who actually think that getting to quarter finals, semi finals and finals is normal for England,when actually it just isn't what England do. 

That will be Southgate’s legacy for the next few managers to follow, an unprecedented run in major competitions. 

The next one up has some  almighty large boots to fill. 

[Silas]

Triple sub on the hour mark.

Southgate's brain will be short circuiting watching that.

Like aliens have landed. 

[matt83]

3 minutes ago, M_B said:

There are younger supporters who actually think that getting to quarter finals, semi finals and finals is normal for England,when actually it just isn't what England do. 

That will be Southgate’s legacy for the next few managers to follow, an unprecedented run in major competitions. 

The next one up has some  almighty large boots to fill. 

I’m sure most will take the pragmatic view that the runs have been insanely favourable and haven’t really beaten anyone to get where we’ve got in most of them. 

[simongarnerisgod]

10 minutes ago, matt83 said:

Southgate is the luckiest manager ever. No question about it. Almost every time we’ve come up against a remotely equal/better side to us in a major tournament we’ve lost. 2018 lost to a superior Belgium side twice and a slightly worse Croatia. 2020 beat a worse German side (who were riding a low) fair dos though but lost to a fairly equal Italy and at home. In no small part to tactics once went ahead. 2022 lost to a better France where gave a better account than most expected. 2024 step forward Holland who are fairly equal on paper…

These groups of players might only come around once every couple of decades yet with this one we’ve had bloody Southgate scabbing his way to uncharted territory. To have his luck on a half way decent manager and these players would be too much to ask I suppose.  

i would`nt call it luck,just very risk averse,which enables us to grind out results against the lesser sides but when it comes to the better sides we`ll always lose because he won`t take a risk and sooner or later the better sides will find a way of unlocking our safety first approach,i`ll always maintain if allardyce had been manager and not  southgate we`de be in a golden era,far superior tactician to southgate,who has only got one approach,defend,defend and defend,if you do manage to score defend even deeper

[RTM08]

Just now, simongarnerisgod said:

i would`nt call it luck,just very risk averse,which enables us to grind out results against the lesser sides but when it comes to the better sides we`ll always lose because he won`t take a risk and sooner or later the better sides will find a way of unlocking our safety first approach,i`ll always maintain if allardyce had been manager and not  southgate we`de be in a golden era,far superior tactician to southgate,who has only got one approach,defend,defend and defend,if you do manage to score defend even deeper

It isn't risk aversion that has meant that all the "good" sides on paper have been on the opposite side of the draw whether we come 1st or 2nd in our groups. It's absolutely been luck. 

[M_B]

10 minutes ago, matt83 said:

I’m sure most will take the pragmatic view that the runs have been insanely favourable and haven’t really beaten anyone to get where we’ve got in most of them. 

You don’t reach the latter stages of major competitions so many times through luck. Ask every England manager since Ramsey. 

It's the way every England supporter who doesn't rate him, tries to explain away his exceptional record, bettered only by one man in six decades. 

[M_B]

12 minutes ago, RTM08 said:

It isn't risk aversion that has meant that all the "good" sides on paper have been on the opposite side of the draw whether we come 1st or 2nd in our groups. It's absolutely been luck. 

France were on our side of the draw. They didn't do their job, England did. That isn't England's luck, it's Frances inability to do what we did. 

[wilsdenrover]

54 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Not biasness just fact.  I've admitted we've been shit but to claim we're inferior to any of those teams is just BULLSHIT 

Following you on this thread is one hell of a rollercoaster 

[simongarnerisgod]

m`bappe is another neymar,touted by the media as sensational,in reality he is`nt that special

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, matt83 said:

Can you imagine Southgate even starting yamal. 16 years old no way. 

He’d have played as many minutes as Wharton has.

Edited July 9 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Upside Down]

France had a lot of the ball but didn't really offer anything going forward.

Spain were solid and just did the basics.

 

[DeeCee]

Spain are a team, we are a side.

[roversfan99]

15 hours ago, roverandout said:

Even the Dutch fans have said their own midfield is poor 

Where have you read this?

I think the Dutch midfield has shown up very well considering its second choice, Reijnders is a very elegant player and Schouten compliments him nicely.

[Wheelton Blue]

I've seen all of the Spain games; they are a joy to watch and poles apart from the mundade English style in the entertainment stakes.

Having said that and despite argubably having a favourable draw, if England manage to get past the Netherlands and beat Spain in the final, then it will be deserved, no question. 'You can only beat what's in front of you', as the adage goes.

[RevidgeBlue]

11 hours ago, roverandout said:

Not nonsense.  Best player in Germany best player in Spain. Best player in England.  Best rightback in the world.  Saka would walk into any team in the world. Palmer Chelsea best player.  Rice one of the best in his position.  Please tell me what areas Spain Portugal Germany France are superior in

Champions League players but a manager who bombed at Middlesbrough despite being heavily backed, getting them relegated from the PL then getting sacked whilst they were in the Championship.

That's the problem.

[benhben]

12 hours ago, roverandout said:

Not nonsense.  Best player in Germany best player in Spain. Best player in England.  Best rightback in the world.  Saka would walk into any team in the world. Palmer Chelsea best player.  Rice one of the best in his position.  Please tell me what areas Spain Portugal Germany France are superior in

Spain are a million miles ahead of us this tournament in terms of having a plan, working as a team and moving the ball qucikly and effectively. This falls on the hopeless manager we have rather than the actual players in my opinion. 

Luckiest manager of the last 20 years with the draws hes had in recent tournaments. 

[Eddie]

I wouldn't write England off against that Spanish side.

England are better than France in virtually every department and France caused Spain plenty of issues over the course of the 90 minutes.

Spain look very good and they're the in-form side of the tournament, but they still have a donkey up front and aren't great at the back. 

Carvajal being back will help sure them up defensively, but they still leave a ton of space in behind and England should be able to exploit that if they set themselves up correctly.

On the Morata subject, it is interesting that he was being praised for doing all of the things that Kane gets criticised for. Dropping back, helping out defensively, basically becoming part of the midfield. He did a good job of winning cheap free kicks towards the end of the match, but he was anonymous aside from that.

I don't think that match was any better than Portugal v France. It just had goals. But it does stand out in a tournament starved of enjoyable matches.

Both the Netherlands and England will fancy their chances against Spain. It's the final of a major tournament, no one would expect to have an easy match.