England - Thomas Tuchel then…

[ABBEY]

47 minutes ago, waynerovers said:

Klopp is the stand out candidate for me, he hasn't been mentioned on the 5 man shortlist but if he's willing to do it they should throw everything into getting him. Proven track record of winning trophies, going up against the best coach in modern football for the last 8 years, plays attacking football and knows the English game as well as anyone. He's also pretty much universally liked by most English football fans.

a german scouse victim card player ...no thanks

[RevidgeBlue]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I really hope we dont just give the job to someone like Carsley, an FA moulded non controversial type or someone like Potter.

Klopp etc are the ideal but even a Tuchel would be a good appointment. The English management pool is dry sadly.

I agree. 

On Southgate thank God he's gone, plainly should have gone after the first Euros final, it was obvious from that point on we'd never win anything with him in charge and We've wasted three years and two tournaments. After eight years we  still don't really have an identity or style of play and  went into the tournament experimenting with TAA in midfield.

As for the next appointment the FA need to be really brave and think outside the box for once. Klopp, Guardiola, Poccetino etc would be ideal but there must be some other absolute top class foreign coaches out there with a slightly lower profilewho would jump at the chance.

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I agree. 

On Southgate thank God he's gone, plainly should have gone after the first Euros final, it was obvious from that point on we'd never win anything with him in charge and We've wasted three years and two tournaments. After eight years we  still don't really have an identity or style of play and  went into the tournament experimenting with TAA in midfield.

As for the next appointment the FA need to be really brave and think outside the box for once. Klopp, Guardiola, Poccetino etc would be ideal but there must be some other absolute top class foreign coaches out there with a slightly lower profilewho would jump at the chance.

I don't think Southgate deserves the level of vitriol but we definitely need someone more tactically canny, especially as they will struggle to match the same level of luck in draws.

Tuchel apparently wants the job and he has experience of winning the Champions League with not an elite Chelsea team.

[RevidgeBlue]

9 minutes ago, arbitro said:

But got to the final which 22 of the other teams would have been delighted to do. I think you must be chuffed to bits they didn't win it.

When did he blame the fans and pundits?

He said numerous times during the tournament that he and the team were having to work in a "strange environment" or words to that effect which was a clear reference to the stick they were (rightly) getting from the pundits and the fans back home for their performances.

[wilsdenrover]

51 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I find the vast majority of these pundits the same. Out of the ones I saw at this tournament Fabregas, Mata and Mendieta were the best by far in my opinion. Lineker is on a reported £1.35m just from the BBC. That is scandalous in itself.

A solid midfield three.

[arbitro]

10 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

He said numerous times during the tournament that he and the team were having to work in a "strange environment" or words to that effect which was a clear reference to the stick they were (rightly) getting from the pundits and the fans back home for their performances.

The majority of these have had to eat a slice of humble pie because he took England to the final. 

What were your expectations pre tournament?

[Gav]

31 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

Neither can I TBH but his personality & style is exactly what this team needs & nobody English currently comes close…

I'm not a fan of picking the best club manager at the time to come into the national fold, its not worked before for England and doesn't work in general. Spain have just won the Euros with a Spanish manager most have ever heard of, Argentina won the last world cup with Scaloni, another manager most had ever heard of.

What do these managers have in common? They both came through the national coaching ranks, like Southgate, food for thought maybe...

[arbitro]

From Mark Bullingham.

In the 25 tournaments post 1966 before Gareth took charge, we had won seven knockout games. In his four tournaments we have won nine. So, in his eight years, he has won more games that really matter than in the previous 50 years.

 

 

[sharpysharps86]

29 minutes ago, Gav said:

I'm not a fan of picking the best club manager at the time to come into the national fold, its not worked before for England and doesn't work in general. Spain have just won the Euros with a Spanish manager most have ever heard of, Argentina won the last world cup with Scaloni, another manager most had ever heard of.

What do these managers have in common? They both came through the national coaching ranks, like Southgate, food for thought maybe...

This. 100% this.

[bluebruce]

Klopp is the best candidate, but won't get the job even if he wants it for the simple reason that he's German.

Howe is the best English candidate, comfortably.

I've no fucking clue why Graham Potter is the bookie's favourite. Realistically, I hope Howe gets it.

[Dreams of 1995]

30 minutes ago, arbitro said:

From Mark Bullingham.

In the 25 tournaments post 1966 before Gareth took charge, we had won seven knockout games. In his four tournaments we have won nine. So, in his eight years, he has won more games that really matter than in the previous 50 years.

 

 

Precisely.

The measly fan nitpicking of who those knock out games included counts for nothing. The fact is, as manager he won them. We have only been knocked out / beaten by either finalists or winners of the tournaments he has been in charge in. That's impressive

People slam him for losing to Croatia, as an example. They were bloody good in that tournament. They may not be football giants in the ilk of Brazil or Argentina, but relative to that specific tournament they were. They got to the final after all

It's been the best time following England and unfortunately the highs have come with the lows. Really, we were beaten by better sides and in knock out football that's just the way it goes. I think this England side will win something soon and a lot of that groundwork has come from Southgate's work at St George's park. It's quite well known in the football world just how much of his brain power has gone into St George's and that legacy will not be forgotten. Amongst those in the game anyway

Fans are fickle. Always will be. The same blokes screaming for Klopp now will be slamming him and calling him a failure if he didn't make it past his first quarter final. Such is life

[jim mk2]

On 15/07/2024 at 11:29, jim mk2 said:

Ask most of the England fans trudging home bitterly disappointed if they wanted Southgate to carry on and I suspect you'd get a resounding No. He's not popular with the majority and Southgate knows it; the FA will try to persuade him to stay I'm sure but I think he wants out. He's had enough.

 

Just listen to your Uncle Jim

I think it’s a case of thanks Gareth and goodbye. He gave the national team and the country its pride back through good man management but his shortcomings as a coach prevented him winning a trophy

The biggest failure was the Euros final at Wembley on front of our own home crowd and the advantage of an early goal against a very average Italy team. That trophy should be on his CV now but his innate conservatism and lack of tactical nous cost England dear

If he wants it and Newcastle will let him go I’d have Howe

[Mike E]

Next manager:

I think the absolute best candidate would be a Klopp/Pep/Tuchel type.

But knowing we’re keen on English managers for the England team, then the best two candidates seem to be Howe and Potter.

I’d take Howe because I think his man-management  and media style is very similar to Gareth’s, so would be a smooth transition. But his tactical style is much more flexible than Gareth’s was and would likely be built around what is available rather than fitting players in.

It also seems quite likely, as Howe’s supporters on the Newcastle board have just left.

Edited July 16 by Mike E

[bluebruce]

53 minutes ago, arbitro said:

The majority of these have had to eat a slice of humble pie because he took England to the final. 

What were your expectations pre tournament?

I've criticised Southgate at times and I don't feel the need to eat any humble pie. Getting to the final is great, but apart from Netherlands (7th, we're 5th) we didn't overcome a team ranked higher than 19th in the world - Switzerland, who we drew with. We managed to draw in normal time with Slovakia (45th), Slovenia (57th), and our form in normal time leading up to the final read: D-D-D-D-W, against mostly poor or average opposition, but all of them ranked below us.

Obviously FIFA rankings are from the be all and end all, but we had no impressive victories, and a string of draws against teams that, rankings or no rankings, we'd be expected to beat.

My expectations pre-tournament didn't involve us getting a highly fortuitous run of matches. Getting to the final was an achievement, but given our run of games it isn't an amazing one that requires everybody to about-face with their opinion on Southgate's decision-making during it. We have a top tier team and mostly struggled to defeat inferior opposition. We lost as soon as we faced a truly good side.

I don't regard Southgate as an absolute bungler, but I think a better manager could have brought the trophy home. Thanks Gareth, some great tournament placings despite some fortune in the draws at times, and he probably does deserve to be considered the second most successful England manager overall, but I think you were right to choose now to move on.

Edited July 16 by bluebruce

[ABBEY]

16 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Klopp is the best candidate, but won't get the job even if he wants it for the simple reason that he's German.

Howe is the best English candidate, comfortably.

I've no fucking clue why Graham Potter is the bookie's favourite. Realistically, I hope Howe gets it.

I'd rather potter than a  dingle

[joey_big_nose]

5 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Next manager:

I think the absolute best candidate would be a Klopp/Pep/Tuchel type.

But knowing we’re keen on English managers for the England team, then the best two candidates seem to be Howe and Potter.

I’d take Howe because I think his man-management  and media style is very similar to Gareth’s, so would be a smooth transition. But his tactical style is much more flexible than Gareth’s was and would likely be built around what is available rather than fitting players in.

It also seems quite likely, as Howe’s supporters on the Newcastle board have just left.

I agree that it will be Howe. Maybe small chance it will be Potter. But I don't think it will be anyone but those two.

[Mattyblue]

Using the Euros as an example it had 8 teams in it until ‘96, then 16 until 2016. Now it has 24 teams (24 from just one continent) with some third place teams reaching the knock outs.

Obviously you can only beat what’s put in front of you and generally I think GS has done a pretty good job, no doubt he’s transformed a piss poor culture around the England team.

But that KO stat is a bit disingenuous, as merely qualifying, then getting out of the group and then ultimately winning KO games in earlier decades was much tougher.

[bluebruce]

23 minutes ago, ABBEY said:

I'd rather potter than a  dingle

Yeh I'm not remotely interested in the fact that he once managed Burnley. This is England. Quite frankly I'd take him at Rovers too. I'm not as keen to cut off my nose to spite my face as you seem to be.

[Mike E]

11 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Yeh I'm not remotely interested in the fact that he once managed Burnley. This is England. Quite frankly I'd take him at Rovers too. I'm not as keen to cut off my nose to spite my face as you seem to be.

Agreed. Even when Coyle was here I didn’t care that he’d managed Burnley, it’s that he was shit.

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

The majority of these have had to eat a slice of humble pie because he took England to the final. 

What were your expectations pre tournament?

Semi finals absolute minimum.

In a way, given we didn't win it anyway, maybe it would have been better if we'd gone out against Slovakia as we deserved because that would have been a more accurate reflection of our performance during the tournament.

By limping unconvincingly to the Final it seems to have fooled everyone into believing all is well - 2 successive Euro Finals yada yada.

Question: Do you think We've progressed since losing the 2021(?) Euro Final to Italy?

Whilst I didn't hear what he said in full, Harry Redknapp apparently nailed it by commenting we didn't play with any pace.

[MarkBRFC71]

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Whilst I didn't hear what he said in full, Harry Redknapp apparently nailed it by commenting we didn't play with any pace.

This.  No pace, no movement, no energy.  A dogged determination to stick with underperforming players, or trying to shoehorn players into the team based on name not form for way too long.  Not taking a fit, recognised LB.  Not playing with any real attacking intent until we went behind.  Sitting back at the wrong times.

Shearer had it right - we played 'well' for 30 minutes against Serbia, and the first half against the Netherlands - so basically 75 minutes out of 690.  The rest of which was turgid.

I think Southgate reached his ceiling the moment Luke Shaw scored in the 2021 final.  In terms of progression it's been at best static since then.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

54 minutes ago, MarkBRFC71 said:

This.  No pace, no movement, no energy.  A dogged determination to stick with underperforming players, or trying to shoehorn players into the team based on name not form for way too long.  Not taking a fit, recognised LB.  Not playing with any real attacking intent until we went behind.  Sitting back at the wrong times.

Shearer had it right - we played 'well' for 30 minutes against Serbia, and the first half against the Netherlands - so basically 75 minutes out of 690.  The rest of which was turgid.

I think Southgate reached his ceiling the moment Luke Shaw scored in the 2021 final.  In terms of progression it's been at best static since then.

The dicking 4-0 at home by Hungary was the writing on the wall.

[Mashed Potatoes]

9 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The dicking 4-0 at home by Hungary was the writing on the wall.

Every team can have a bad day - Spain lost to Scotland in the qualifying group.

[Mashed Potatoes]

For those who think that there was a chance that Klopp would want to take the England job the Daily Telegraph website are reporting that he has confirmed that he will be taking the forthcoming season off from football to re-charge his batteries.

[ChrisyG]

Gareth Southgate has handed in his notice to the FA. They passed it back; he passed it to Bellingham, and he passed it sideways to Kane, who passed it back to the keeper!

Boom boom!