England - Thomas Tuchel then…

[Mattyblue]

‘Well, err, I didn’t want it anyway’.

[roverandout]

11 hours ago, Upside Down said:

Heartless. Chaddyesque

Not really.  I had to go back to work a week after my mum and dad died last year. Life goes on unfortunately 

[AllRoverAsia]

8 hours ago, bazza said:

So who would be suitable for the England job? Pep won't take it.

If Southgate over achieved then he's a bloody good manager; the best since Bobby Robson.

And Klopp's chosen a vodka mixer

[Mashed Potatoes]

I didn't see the game but it sounds as if those who wondered why Southgate relied on two holding midfielders have now found out why.

The talk of Carsley being axed because of this one bad result in his third game is nonsense. He tried to experiment and it didn't come off - it happens with experiments.

[Dan]

4 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I didn't see the game but it sounds as if those who wondered why Southgate relied on two holding midfielders have now found out why.

The talk of Carsley being axed because of this one bad result in his third game is nonsense. He tried to experiment and it didn't come off - it happens with experiments.

Maybe your mate Mowbray would be a good replacement though? 😉 

[Vinjay]

36 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

And Klopp's chosen a vodka mixer

It's a strange move and unnecessary. As someone from Dortmund put it "a great career and then he does this at the finish line". Reminds me of someone else who just this past April pissed away his legacy to a far worse extent for absolutely no reason. 

Edited October 11 by Vinjay

[RTM08]

29 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I didn't see the game but it sounds as if those who wondered why Southgate relied on two holding midfielders have now found out why.

The talk of Carsley being axed because of this one bad result in his third game is nonsense. He tried to experiment and it didn't come off - it happens with experiments.

I don't follow this argument really, there isn't necessarily an issue with not playing two holding midfielders, just play a normal formation instead of that abomination last night. 7 midfielders plus 3 defenders who want to be midfielders and not a single on of them actually playing in midfield!

If the score had been 5-0 it wouldn't have been undeserved, but this is why you don't just choose someone because they used to work with the kids.

Still think Wharton is the answer, but that Palace move may actually stunt his progress on the international stage unless City take a punt.

[Silas]

1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

The talk of Carsley being axed because of this one bad result in his third game is nonsense. He tried to experiment and it didn't come off - it happens with experiments.

He pretty much quit in the post match press conferences.

"....hopefully I'll be going back to the 21's"

He hates the media focus I think. Not the job for him. 

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, Waggy76 said:

That could well be true ..

In which case the FA need to get on with the permanent appointment ASAP. Even if they can't start immediately.

Carsley seems to view the role as an imposition rather than an honour and if the manager's heart isn't in it the players will soon also fall out of love with reporting for international duty and pulling on the white shirt.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I didn't see the game but it sounds as if those who wondered why Southgate relied on two holding midfielders have now found out why.

The talk of Carsley being axed because of this one bad result in his third game is nonsense. He tried to experiment and it didn't come off - it happens with experiments.

Obviously he shouldnt be "axed" (can you be axed as interim manager?) based on one game but it might make it slightly more difficult to justify giving him the full time role, of which most would agree would be too big a risk.

[London blue]

The midfielder soup yesterday was a mess.

To me though it doesn't mean he shouldn't get the job, in the same way the couple of wins mean he should.

Someone called him a Southgate clone earlier which I find hilarious - that couldn't have been further from a Southgate team or display. 

Interested to see where he goes from here. I'd suggest playing a striker.

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, roverandout said:

Not really.  I had to go back to work a week after my mum and dad died last year. Life goes on unfortunately 

Agreed.

The best thing they could have done was to play the game and win it in honour of their former friend.

Which they were forced to do and actually managed. A far better tribute to him than sitting around and moping about it.

Unfortunately tragedies do happen from time to time.

[joey_big_nose]

I think ultimately good teams are balanced sides who work together as a unit. Its as important as individual quality.

Whoever manages is going to have to leave top players on the bench as we have too many similar types (very like 2002 to 2006 in that regard) and choose more suited ones in certain roles.

It doesnt mean being as conservative as Southgate was with Kalvin Phillips etc. You can be balanced and robust but also have a lot of flair like Spain had at the euros.

The big winners out of this should be Mainoo and Wharton - that role alongside Rice is absolutely key.

Wonder what Lineker, Shearer et al will say - they were advocating all out attack... 

[RevidgeBlue]

8 minutes ago, London blue said:

To me though it doesn't mean he shouldn't get the job, in the same way the couple of wins mean he should.

These games against perceived inferior opposition are more or less irrelevant.

The problem is this mindset that you can give the top job in the land to someone with zero senior experience just because they already work within the annals of the FA.

It's pretty bizarre really. If he wasn't already an FA man there's no chance at all he would be given a second thought for the England job nor would a top Premier League Club come within a million miles of him based on what he has or hasn't achieved at the FA.

[London blue]

3 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

These games against perceived inferior opposition are more or less irrelevant.

The problem is this mindset that you can give the top job in the land to someone with zero senior experience just because they already work within the annals of the FA.

It's pretty bizarre really. If he wasn't already an FA man there's no chance at all he would be given a second thought for the England job nor would a top Premier League Club come within a million miles of him based on what he has or hasn't achieved at the FA.

Yes and no - they're ultimately irrelevant, aside from the fact they're one of the few times a manager - especially one auditioning for the job - can display how he wants the team to operate.

Regarding your second point, that's how most industries work, no? Carsley probably wouldn't be near the job if he wasn't already an FA employee, but he is. The FA get a lot of things wrong but looking to create a succession plan isn't one of them. I don't think he should automatically get the job, though.

[RevidgeBlue]

3 minutes ago, London blue said:

 The FA get a lot of things wrong but looking to create a succession plan isn't one of them. I don't think he should automatically get the job, though.

First bit - strongly disagree.

Second bit - He shouldn't even be under consideration let alone an automatic selection.

How often does promoting from within work in Club football? Very very rarely indeed.

[RoverDom]

On commentary I think it was Dixon who said "How do you get, Kane, Foden, Palmer, Saka, Gordon, Bellingham  in the same team" (I swear he listed another 2 or 3 players as well). The short answer is - Don't! 

Don't even try. We could probably pick 11 attackers for those front 4 positions. Doesn't mean we should otherwise Grealish is in goal. Pick the best front 4 and put them on the pitch. The rest provide competition and some may have to miss out completely. 

[London blue]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

First bit - strongly disagree.

Second bit - He shouldn't even be under consideration let alone an automatic selection.

How often does promoting from within work in Club football? Very very rarely indeed.

Why are you against a succession plan being in place? 

Surely someone who won a major tournament in the England youth set up deserves a crack at the senior role? Why does it work that way for players and not managers?

[RTM08]

12 minutes ago, London blue said:

Why are you against a succession plan being in place? 

Surely someone who won a major tournament in the England youth set up deserves a crack at the senior role? Why does it work that way for players and not managers?

Players have club football that gives them the experience and knowledge to help bridge the massive gap between youth and adult football. Someone who manages the youth sides doesn't have another gig on the side that bridges the knowledge gap.

For me (though he did of course manage some clubs) this is one reason Southgate didn't work out. He was constantly out-managed in big games.

[rigger]

14 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Who do you think the defending for the two goals reminded me of ? 

I think we all know.

[Eddie]

4 hours ago, Vinjay said:

It's a strange move and unnecessary. As someone from Dortmund put it "a great career and then he does this at the finish line". Reminds me of someone else who just this past April pissed away his legacy to a far worse extent for absolutely no reason. 

Why? Seems like a dream job.

He wanted a break from football and to travel and this position will allow him to work a bit without taking on the full-time responsibilities of management. He also has a clause in his contract that allows him to leave to be the manager of the German national side and it is clear that he hopes to be the next in that post. 

[Eddie]

As for England last night?

I said it before he left, but we were always going to end up missing how good Southgate was at making us beat bad teams. The consistency that England have shown over the last 4/5 years has been taken for granted and we've instead focused on a handful of failures at the very highest level. 

It's a meaningless match, so no sense overreacting to it when it comes to what it means for Carlsey, but the good old days are back again. 

[London blue]

16 minutes ago, RTM08 said:

Players have club football that gives them the experience and knowledge to help bridge the massive gap between youth and adult football. Someone who manages the youth sides doesn't have another gig on the side that bridges the knowledge gap.

For me (though he did of course manage some clubs) this is one reason Southgate didn't work out. He was constantly out-managed in big games.

I take your point but surely the gap is less for a manager than for players? I don't know, I'm spitballing.

Ultimately I think that succession of this kind is at least joined up thinking from the FA and hopefully avoids the kind of scattergun approach that saw us lurch from McClaren to Capello to Hodgson to Allardyce (lol). 

I don't have an opinion either way on whether Carsley is the right man for the job but I'm behind giving him the opportunity to show what he can do. Yesterday wasn't his finest hour, that's for sure.

[K-Hod]

4 hours ago, Vinjay said:

It's a strange move and unnecessary. As someone from Dortmund put it "a great career and then he does this at the finish line". Reminds me of someone else who just this past April pissed away his legacy to a far worse extent for absolutely no reason. 

Who was that? Surely you aren’t still on about Jason Wilcox? 

[Darrenbot]

3 hours ago, London blue said:

The midfielder soup yesterday was a mess.

To me though it doesn't mean he shouldn't get the job, in the same way the couple of wins mean he should.

Someone called him a Southgate clone earlier which I find hilarious - that couldn't have been further from a Southgate team or display. 

Interested to see where he goes from here. I'd suggest playing a striker.

Southgate clone as in an FA yes man was the point made.