England - Lee Carsley Takes The Reins

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, Herbie6590 said:

He can also play him alongside better players than Southgate can…

And that is probably the main difference Ian. Foden and Bellingham have been excellent for their respective clubs last season but both have real quality alongside them like De Bruyne, Silva, Viniscius, Kroos and many more. I don't really see the same quality in many England players, just more functional players and up against a side like Spain with their quality it shows.

I like Southgate. He seems a really decent, likeable bloke and if he wants a new deal he could get one. Personally I don't think he will accept one though. At times during this tournament he has looked haggard and it seems to me that the criticism has really taken its toll on him and the weight of expectation has been a real burden. If I was advising him it would be to leave, have a long break and then look to get back into club management.

[Hasta]

8 hours ago, Forever Blue said:

Sven never got past the QFs and had better players at his disposal. He’s not fit to wash Gareth’s waistcoat.

Both beat the teams they should have beat but lost every time they hit a 50/50 or worse game, with the exception of Argentina in 2002.

Edited July 15 by Hasta

[ABBEY]

are we still calling southgate the goat ?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 hours ago, DE. said:

Tbf I don't think that's the sole reason. Italy have often not had the best individual talent in their teams, but found a way to win tournaments. Greece certainly weren't the most talented team in 2004, nor were Portugal in 2016. In Euro 2020 I'd argue we were up there with any of the teams in that tournament, in terms of talent, but we didn't win that one either. 

Talent plays a part, usually a big part, but being able to transition a group of players into an international tournament from a club setting is a huge part of being successful as well. I don't think Gareth has done badly at all in this regard when it comes to building a team spirit and togetherness, he just lacks on the tactical front and his methods and style of play is likely very different from what the likes of Pep, Arteta, Ancelotti and the like are drilling into these players on a weekly basis at club level. It has to play some part in why our performances look so disjointed. I actually think the talent and natural ability of many of our players is why we're able to push through in spite of that.

I think the ambition always has to be to win the tournament - in recent years especially we've shown we're more than capable of getting to the latter stages, so we should always consider ourselves in with a chance of winning a major tournament. Maybe it doesn't work out as well under a different manager, but personally I'm ready for a change to see what could happen. I'm not as engrossed in the national team as others are, and I'll admit I mainly just want to actually enjoy watching England play. If we also win a tournament then that's great, too. In terms of purely looking at results and ends justifying the means, I tend to focus more on that at club level with Rovers. 

That’s a good point. Do people really enjoy watching England play against decent sides ? I know I don’t. I end up shouting at the TV. I was doing a lot  of shouting in that second half. Our ball retention was ale house team level. We can flatten the little teams but when we come up against the good teams we look lost.

[sharpysharps86]

Up to the point that Cole Palmer scored I thought there was a sinking inevitability that Spain would win....and then the Palmer goal gave me hope that it was going to be like the Holland, Switzerland, and Slovakia games where England pull something out of nothing. Sadly not to be, and you can't really begrudge a team winning it that had to get past Italy, Germany, France and England to win the thing. Spain were the best team in the competition and rightly deserved to lift the trophy.

England simply need to make a change now though. Time for someone else to have a crack at it. My only concern is that its the FA making the appointment and I can totally see someone like Frank Lampard getting the gig. Graham Potter would probably be the best option of those out of work, or perhaps they'll promote from within again and give it to Lee Carsley. He has at least won something as an England manager.

Also time for the likes of Walker to step aside, he's had a really poor tournament. As has Harry Kane, who should take note of Alan Shearer and retire from international football now to prolong his club career. The man could not control his first touch last night and has been a passenger in this England side, lumbering around with no energy.

[chaddyrovers]

I'm annoyed and angry with certain people keep belittling Southgate's achievements with this utter and complete nonsense that we have favourable games or luck of draws in competitions. It's really annoying like we control it we don't. the draw is the draw. Simple as. Still has to perform on the pitch and win

8 hours ago, K-Hod said:

The facts are also that we’ve won none of the tournaments Southgate has managed.

But performed better than 6 former managers before him like Hoddle, Keegan, Sven, McClaren, Capello and Hodgson. 

[chaddyrovers]

6 minutes ago, sharpysharps86 said:

My only concern is that its the FA making the appointment and I can totally see someone like Frank Lampard getting the gig. Graham Potter would probably be the best option of those out of work, or perhaps they'll promote from within again and give it to Lee Carsley. He has at least won something as an England manager.

I seen last night some people suggesting Rio Ferdinand for the England job. 

Lineker suggested Lampard for the job the other day  

Appointing Lee Carsley would be similar move to what Spain did after the world cup appointing their under 21 manager as the national manager. 

I can't see Howe or O'Neil leaving their PL job. Potter is the odds on favourite for the job right now with the bookies

I would stick with Southgate if he wants to continue. He has done a great job and he deserves everyone respect for the job he has done

Edited July 15 by chaddyrovers

[Upside Down]

4 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

That’s a good point. Do people really enjoy watching England play against decent sides ? I know I don’t. I end up shouting at the TV. I was doing a lot  of shouting in that second half. Our ball retention was ale house team level. We can flatten the little teams but when we come up against the good teams we look lost.

But they didn't flatten anyone in this tournament. They won two games and played shit in every single match apart from half of the Netherlands game.

Apart from being slightly resilient in defence England had absolutely nothing going on tactically and it showed in every single game.

A premier league team with a division 3 manager.

[Mattyblue]

Stayed out of this thread for a while, come back to see that … folk still don’t understand the concept of luck/chance.

Never change brfcs 😅

 

[benhben]

To be honest Im still not sure how we got to the final. Apart from one half against the dutch we were terrible to watch and rode our luck many times. Spain were miles better. However, you still have to congratulate them on reaching a final...but youre not going to win playing that poorly over a tournament. 

Think this goes down as another missed opportunity and a lot could have been better. Great squad, but no fit left back, blindly sticking with an injured looking Kane, not using players like Gordon, Eze, Bowen at all when were desperate for some pace on the counter attack too defensive mindset to name a few. 

Apart from his ridiculously late subs, my main issues with Soutgate are 1. why so cautious when all your best players are high pressing attackers and 2. What is the style of play? Is it possession, is it counter attack? We dont seem to have any plan really. Spain on paper are no better but look like a well oiled machine with a set play style. We on the otherhand slowly pass it around until someone produces some individual skill or we loose it. Why does Saka look so exiting for Aresnel but mr play it safe for england? It can only be Southgate. 

I think were long overdue a change. Not a bad sign off I guess. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

Yet Spain played with 2 wingers - a very old fashioned way of playing and something you don’t see often these days. They also play at a higher pace than us. By biggest criticism of England this tournament is that we were too slow and laboured and  therefore were easy to defend against. 

Yes their wingers made the pitch very big when they had the ball yet still got inside regularly to threaten our goal. Does that mean wingers will be coming back into fashion. I hope so.

[Lancaster Rover]

I find all the talk of most successful manager such a small island mentality. Teams play more knockout games than ever in expanded competitions with a diminishing level of quality. When it comes down to brass tacks England have won nothing. They’ve won 2 games in normal time in this completion. However you wish to draw positives from that the reality is there for all to see. 

[Upside Down]

2 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Stayed out of this thread for a while, come back to see that … folk still don’t understand the concept of luck/chance.

Never change brfcs 😅

 

It's embarrassing really but I'm not exactly surprised at the people who are struggling with the concept.

[sharpysharps86]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I seen last night some people suggesting Rio Ferdinand for the England job. 

Lineker suggested Lampard for the job the other day  

Appointing Lee Carsley would be similar move to what Spain did after the world cup appointing their under 21 manager as the national manager. 

I can't see Howe or O'Neil leaving their PL job. Potter is the odds on favourite for the job right now with the bookies

I would stick with Southgate if he wants to continue. He has done a great job and he deserves everyone respect for the job he has done

Completely understand wanting to keep Southgate on, and according to Fabrizio Romano on Twitter the FA also want him to stay....BUT I do feel like this might be a case of outstaying your welcome. I think he'll decide to move on, it looks like its taken an awful lot out of him. He can go with his head held relatively high as well. So he hasn't won anything, but what he has done is repair the damage done by Capello and Hodgson in recent times. I reckon the culture within the squad hasn't been as good since Euro 96.

Agree that Howe and O'Neil would not take it. Managing clubs is far more appealing than international management in this day and age, and getting the England job is no longer the pinnacle of success for an English manager.

Rio Ferdinand couldn't manage his way out of a paper bag. He's an awful pundit and probably an even worse coach.

Carsley would be the most sensible appointment as he's already part of the FA setup.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

9 hours ago, Giant said:

Why can’t people just accept that our players aren’t as good as we think? The 1966 team had 3 world class players in it, Gordon Banks, Bobby Moore and Bobby Charlton. No England team since has had a world class player in it, plenty of very good ones, but none of the calibre of those three. They are why we won the WC, and the absence of players like them is why we haven’t won anything since.

Plus they had the likes of Alan Ball and Geoff Hurst who put in World class performances on the day when it mattered. What we needed from Foden and Bellingham last night.

[MarkBRFC]

18 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would stick with Southgate if he wants to continue. He has done a great job and he deserves everyone respect for the job he has done

What for?! 

He has had 8 years at it, time to move on with some fresh ideas.

It's like when folk wanted Mowbray to stay on after 5 years here, to do what i'll never know.

[joey_big_nose]

8 hours ago, roverandout said:

On top of that Spain aren't blessed with top player in every position.  They just have a system and know their jobs. 

Id say they have a squad about as good as Englands but much better ballance in terms of how their top talent is distributed across the positions.

England really suffer from having all their best players wanting to play as number 10s. Yamal, Williams, Rodri, Fabian and Olmo are such a balanced set of players to work together.

Whoever comes in as manager needs to find a way to get that balance, and will need to drop big names to get it.

[DE.]

It's definitely time for Southgate to leave, imo. He got lucky in this tournament and he must know that. We were a Bellingham wonder goal in the final 80 seconds from being knocked out by Slovakia in the last 16. We struggled against Denmark and Slovenia. We took the Swiss into extra time with our only shot on target. 

Yes we got through, but it was desperate at times. Gareth can still leave now with his head held high, even though we ultimately didn't win anything. That may not be the case if we repeat these performance levels at WC 2026, or it gets worse. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Id say they have a squad about as good as Englands but much better ballance in terms of how their top talent is distributed across the positions.

England really suffer from having all their best players wanting to play as number 10s. Yamal, Williams, Rodri, Fabian and Olmo are such a balanced set of players to work together.

Whoever comes in as manager needs to find a way to get that balance, and will need to drop big names to get it.

Probably the best of the lot, Pedri, wasn’t even playing. We usually go out to rural Spain in summer and our village has an 3/4 size artificial pitch. There are always kids on it playing football all year round. To be honest there’s nothing else for them to do. Just like it was for us back in the day of 2 TV channels. But practice makes perfect. The more you play the better you get. And the cream rises to the top.

Where I live in Rochdale we face a huge common. Back in the day it was full of kids playing football. Over the last ten or fifteen years it’s had groups of Asian heritage kids usually playing cricket. Even in winter if it’s fine ! Funnily enough there’s been no cricket this year. They are playing football all the time now.

Edited July 15 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[chaddyrovers]

18 minutes ago, sharpysharps86 said:

Completely understand wanting to keep Southgate on, and according to Fabrizio Romano on Twitter the FA also want him to stay....BUT I do feel like this might be a case of outstaying your welcome. I think he'll decide to move on, it looks like its taken an awful lot out of him. He can go with his head held relatively high as well. So he hasn't won anything, but what he has done is repair the damage done by Capello and Hodgson in recent times. I reckon the culture within the squad hasn't been as good since Euro 96.

Agree that Howe and O'Neil would not take it. Managing clubs is far more appealing than international management in this day and age, and getting the England job is no longer the pinnacle of success for an English manager.

Rio Ferdinand couldn't manage his way out of a paper bag. He's an awful pundit and probably an even worse coach.

Carsley would be the most sensible appointment as he's already part of the FA setup.

I understand what you are saying about Southgate. I agree Carsley would be the most sensible appointment for us to make. 

Rio talks a great game but can he coach and manage it. I think Lampard will get it personally. Suits the FA Approach. 

7 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

What for?! 

He has had 8 years at it, time to move on with some fresh ideas.

It's like when folk wanted Mowbray to stay on after 5 years here, to do what i'll never know.

I think I have already said and the post above that explains this. 

[riverholmes]

39 minutes ago, benhben said:

To be honest Im still not sure how we got to the final. Apart from one half against the dutch we were terrible to watch and rode our luck many times. Spain were miles better. However, you still have to congratulate them on reaching a final...but youre not going to win playing that poorly over a tournament. 

Think this goes down as another missed opportunity and a lot could have been better. Great squad, but no fit left back, blindly sticking with an injured looking Kane, not using players like Gordon, Eze, Bowen at all when were desperate for some pace on the counter attack too defensive mindset to name a few. 

Apart from his ridiculously late subs, my main issues with Soutgate are 1. why so cautious when all your best players are high pressing attackers and 2. What is the style of play? Is it possession, is it counter attack? We dont seem to have any plan really. Spain on paper are no better but look like a well oiled machine with a set play style. We on the otherhand slowly pass it around until someone produces some individual skill or we loose it. Why does Saka look so exiting for Aresnel but mr play it safe for england? It can only be Southgate. 

I think were long overdue a change. Not a bad sign off I guess. 

Yes, really strong squad with excellent individuals but no effective system or mentality to bring them together. When they started doing something in the first half against Netherlands, it looked promising, but that 3-5-2 system wasn't taken up. The defence, however, was impressive and Guehi deserves all the credit, with Stones, for his tournament.

I think it's fair to say that there is a dearth in quality in European football (players and, maybe, managers), compared to the past, and that's one of the reasons England's disjointed team made it to the final. The other reasons, I feel, were an excellent defence and, also, individual moments.

There are one or two glaring weak points in the England squad, namely central midfield and left back. However, the overall quality should have been enough to put on some good performances. There were none - just fits and starts, between really negative and confused play.

Edited July 15 by riverholmes

[Gav]

32 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I'm annoyed and angry with certain people keep belittling Southgate's achievements with this utter and complete nonsense that we have favourable games or luck of draws in competitions. It's really annoying like we control it we don't. the draw is the draw. Simple as. Still has to perform on the pitch and win

But performed better than 6 former managers before him like Hoddle, Keegan, Sven, McClaren, Capello and Hodgson. 

You should know by now to take everything said on here with a large pinch of salt chaddy.

When push comes to shove, the FA and Southgate will decide the future, Gareth gets results, his tournament record is outstanding, but sadly we came up against a Spain side that reminded me of Man City at times, we just couldn't get the ball of them and no manager could have done anything different with this set of players to counter that Spain side last night.

No foreign coach has ever won a world cup and only 1 has ever won the Euros, so if Gareth decides to leave its English only for me and that puts Eddie Howe in the hot seat if he'd leave Newcastle at best!

Lets hope Gareth gives it another 2yrs until the next world cup.

 

[Upside Down]

They'll go for another yes man that doesn't rock the boat. All those in the F.A are not going to do anything to upset the cushy number they're on.

[Exiled_Rover]

An hour into the working day and I'm still absolutely livid.

We've thrown away two golden chances to win silverware.

I hope our returning heroes' bus is egged when they land.

[Exiled_Rover]

9 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

He wasnt just a flat track bully for City. The sides we have faced in the tournament arent superior to what he faces week in week out.

As I said though, the answer is certainly not shoehorning players in due to status. If he cant get him playing in a way that he replicates his club form, then dont start him.

Or maybe start a CM than can pass the fucking ball between the lines.

I think Rice is a fantastic firefighter, but he's not a creative force and Mainoo was a passenger again.