England - Lee Carsley Takes The Reins

[Upside Down]

6 hours ago, ABBEY said:

rip ferdinand.. aye drug cheat and cheated on his dying wife , other than that top geezer

One of the most overrated players to ever step on the pitch.

[BlackburnEnd75]

8 hours ago, Gav said:

Interesting comments on Walker, arguably our best player in the tournament, saved us countless times with his pace, but I guess you're looking at his age and will he lose his legs? He'd be first on my team sheet for USA world Cup, if he maintains his current form.

 

I must disagree on walker. 2nd goal is his fault as he was miles out of position for no reason. 

Walker generally looked better as right sided cb rather than a proper right back for whatever reason. 

I wouldn't retire him but would be looking at different options.

[Forever Blue]

Tuchel, Howe and Potter early front runners for job if Sir Gareth does one. 

[Waggy76]

9 hours ago, MarkBRFC71 said:

No English manager has ever won the Prem so should clubs who want to be a success stop appointing them?

Howe won’t leave Newcastle.  Potter was a failure as soon as he had to deal with a big job and big egos.

We should go all out for Klopp.  Or even Pep - if we can convince him to ditch City early (unlikely I know).  If we win something I don’t give a shite where the manager comes from tbh.

Newcastle might leave Howe , next season if they are cast adrift in October...

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, Waggy76 said:

Newcastle might leave Howe , next season if they are cast adrift in October...

Possibly, I feel that Newcastles owners would like somebody more high profile.

[Darrenbot]

Chaddy keeps going on about countries like Germany France and Italy and Spain not going for foreign managers but the difference between those countries and ours is their top leagues are filled with domestic mangers proving their worth and they have tons to chose from when picking an international manager.How many English managers are in the prem? when you have hardly any proven winners that are English youre starting from a very small pot to pick from.

[RoversTilliDie]

Lets face it we played teams classed as minnows right up to the quarter finals, and a penalty that never was one in the semis. Lo and behold we meet one of the top teams in the final and lose. They were hyped up as supermen, they were poor most of the tournament.

[riverholmes]

2 hours ago, Darrenbot said:

Chaddy keeps going on about countries like Germany France and Italy and Spain not going for foreign managers but the difference between those countries and ours is their top leagues are filled with domestic mangers proving their worth and they have tons to chose from when picking an international manager.How many English managers are in the prem? when you have hardly any proven winners that are English youre starting from a very small pot to pick from.

I think a way to go about it might be to focus as much on the junior internationals and U21s as much as the seniors. If England are successful at the lower levels, that success will sooner or later translate higher. Clearly, the Premier League isn't providing the conveyor belt of English coaches/managers, so the FA might need to do it themselves. Though, keeping hold of them will be a challenge, if they're successful.

It is rather short-sighted, I feel, to expect the seniors to be all conquering, if England aren't successful at the lower levels that many of the seniors will come through. Though, it's true, the best often by-pass youth level. I haven't followed it much but I believe the England youth internationals, including U21s, have been more successful in recent years, which hopefully is a sign. 

I remember yesteryear when no matter the big names England U21s had, they couldn't win tournaments. There was U21's Euro 2002 when David Dunn was given the captaincy and David Platt, the manager, suggested that Dunn might be the best player/midfielder in Europe. Inevitably, England disappointed and didn't make it out of a tough group, losing to Portugal and Italy. Portugal's Hugo Viana, made a mockery of any suggestion that Dunn was amongst Europe's elite. Though, ironically, Viana couldn't adapt to the Premier League's style when he made his big money move to Newcastle.

Looking it up, that England U21 squad was incredibly strong on paper. Peter Crouch, Bobby Zamora and Scott Parker were on the bench at times, with Alan Smith, Gareth Barry and Jermaine Defoe starting. It's long been a stylistic and tactical problem for England to make a team out of talented, albeit, stylistically long ball oriented players - albeit, the stylistic gap is far closer these days, compared to the Premier League's era when every game was 100 miles an hour. Then, the team would step out to and be hit by the culture shock at international level where teams comfortably passed the ball around. 

Edited July 16 by riverholmes

[Gav]

11 hours ago, Darrenbot said:

Chaddy keeps going on about countries like Germany France and Italy and Spain not going for foreign managers but the difference between those countries and ours is their top leagues are filled with domestic mangers proving their worth and they have tons to chose from when picking an international manager.How many English managers are in the prem? when you have hardly any proven winners that are English youre starting from a very small pot to pick from.

Most of those leagues you mention have all just been won by foreign managers.....just sayin.

We've tried foreign managers before, neither could get us near a final. In Capellos case the players actually revolted mid-tournament as he didn't understand how to manage English players, it was a disaster, especially for the fans who had paid good money to travel to SA.

But you do make a good point on the talent pool of English managers, like the player pool, its getting smaller and smaller due to the spending power of the Premiership clubs and that ability to sign the best players in the world, many of them are not English, which tells its own story. 

All that said, we need to stick to a domestic manager for me, someone who understands the country, the fans and our history. 

 

Edited July 16 by Gav

[Mattyblue]

May be wrong but it feels to me that the English playing pool is getting bigger again and we are seeing players coming through with improved techniques than in previous decades, but the manager pool looks very weak.

[roversfan99]

I can't get my head around the logic that we shouldn't consider a foreign manager because of the failings of 2 individuals who just happened to be foreign.

An English manager would be ideal but the pool is so small hence why people like Carsley and Potter are mentioned. Would they genuinely be better than say Tuchel, would their birth certificate outrank the latters tactical nous?

Stuff about understanding our history, our history is repeated failure. We need someone canny enough to get through a tournament.

[Mattyblue]

Like that Big Sam line, ‘but the fans say you don’t understand the West Ham way!’

’What’s that then? Not winning?’ 

[RevidgeBlue]

Adrian Bevington former head of Comms at the FA this morning summing up everything that's wrong with the organisation.

Said that we need someone to front the organisation. No we don't. We need the best manage to win football matches rand trry and bring home a trophy  NOT a politician.

Nearly 50 years on from Brian Clough they still haven't learnt.

[Gav]

36 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

We need someone canny enough to get through a tournament.

Lets hope Southgate stays on then:

WC 2018 - Semi Final

Euro 2020 - Final

WC 2022 - Quarters

Euros 2024 - Final

Edited July 16 by Gav

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

42 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Like that Big Sam line, ‘but the fans say you don’t understand the West Ham way!’

’What’s that then? Not winning?’ 

Not only do we not win, we don’t even look like winning.

[joey_big_nose]

56 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I can't get my head around the logic that we shouldn't consider a foreign manager because of the failings of 2 individuals who just happened to be foreign.

An English manager would be ideal but the pool is so small hence why people like Carsley and Potter are mentioned. Would they genuinely be better than say Tuchel, would their birth certificate outrank the latters tactical nous?

Stuff about understanding our history, our history is repeated failure. We need someone canny enough to get through a tournament.

I'm not against a foreign manager, but I do also wonder if a short term club manager is a good idea. Most of the best international  coaches over the last 20 years have tended not to be club managers dipping into a bit of international management. They tend to be people who are part of the international setup long term. 

Would Tuchel, Klopp etc commit long term to the England job? I have my doubts. Potter or Howe might. I think to be successful as an international manager it's a multi year building job shaping the team and the style.

[MarkBRFC]

Southgate leaving has been confirmed.

[Displaced Rover]

32 minutes ago, Gav said:

Lets hope Southgate stays on then:

WC 2018 - Semi Final

Euro 2020 - Final

WC 2022 - Quarters

Euros 2024 - Final

Hasn't won anything....

Let's see how many top tier clubs are scrambling to hire him shall we....

[joey_big_nose]

4 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

May be wrong but it feels to me that the English playing pool is getting bigger again and we are seeing players coming through with improved techniques than in previous decades, but the manager pool looks very weak.

Yeah statistically that we still haven't had an English manager win the premier league after 32 years is insane. I am actually struggling to think how many English managers have qualified for the Champions League? 

THis list from 2022 is pretty amazing. Over 30 years of CL only eight English managers have been in charge of a CL game...

https://www.90min.com/posts/every-englishman-manage-the-champions-league

I mean there is something really f***ed up about that? How has that happened? Probably the biggest factor is that we don't export managers to other countries, which then I guess links back to English people not being comfortable learning languages. And that you get paid more for lower down clubs in England so no need to move for money. And that English clubs have the resources to bring in the best global talent. But still it's an absolutely mad stat....

Edited July 16 by joey_big_nose

[roverandout]

Sad to see him go but right decision 

[Gav]

6 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Southgate leaving has been confirmed.

Not unexpected, he looked like his race had been run, but what a ride, the fans that actually follow the national team to the tournaments will be sad to see him go I'm sure. 

 

[Exiled_Rover]

4 minutes ago, Gav said:

Not unexpected, he looked like his race had been run, but what a ride, the fans that actually follow the national team to the tournaments will be sad to see him go I'm sure. 

 

A very tiny clique then. 

[MarkBRFC71]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

All that said, we need to stick to a domestic manager for me, someone who understands the country, the fans and our history. 

 

Hasn't Klopp just spent 8 years totally immersed in English football?  Didn't he win the Prem, FA Cup, League Cup and Champion's League?

His credentials vastly outweigh any English candidate - and it's not even close.

[Silas]

14 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Sad to see him go but right decision 

He's done the decent thing here,.rather than drag it on to December. 

Fair play to him on that.

He's done a decent job imo, but now's the right time.

Just not sure I'll be inspired by who they appoint.  

[47er]

Just because he's done well with England doesn't mean he has the abilities to manage a team that's playing every week.

A very different kettle of fish.