England - Lee Carsley Takes The Reins

[MarkBRFC71]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Wrong, my opinion has and always will be that England Senior National Football manager should be Englishman and we tried this foreign option twice and didn't improve. Capello was disaster. 

The next England manager should be English. 

 

So based on your logic no English club that wants to win the Prem should ever appoint an English manager because not one has ever won it.  Gotcha.

[wilsdenrover]

14 minutes ago, MarkBRFC71 said:

So based on your logic no English club that wants to win the Prem should ever appoint an English manager because not one has ever won it.  Gotcha.

I’m not sure logic is the word I’d have used there.

[Blow-in]

17 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Like I have repeatably said the next England manager should be Englishman and I won't waive from this viewpoint. I think Howe is the best bet but as I have shown that the best club managers don't also make the best international managers. 

 

So let me get this straight you are looking for an English manager with international experience. I think Southgate is free

[Gav]

1 hour ago, MarkBRFC71 said:

So based on your logic no English club that wants to win the Prem should ever appoint an English manager because not one has ever won it.  Gotcha.

He never mentioned Premiership, you did and it was a silly point the first time you mentioned it, just like its a silly point now.

To want an English manager to mange the national side is a fair ask, its a popular opinion, especially amongst fans that go to games, which says a lot for me.  

Edited July 18 by Gav

[K-Hod]

In an ideal world, of course, I’d want an English manager.

The reality is though, there aren’t many good ones at all.

[speeeeeeedie]

2 hours ago, ABBEY said:

if its klopp i wont 

Do you like anyone? 

All I've seen from you is disparaging comments about anyone proposed. 

An English Alex Ferguson/Bill Shankly/Pep Guardiola combo candidate isn't available.

[ABBEY]

2 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Even if he wins the WC?

yup.. it would be like having a dingle win the league with us. Horrible dipping turd

[Oldgregg86]

42 minutes ago, ABBEY said:

yup.. it would be like having a dingle win the league with us. Horrible dipping turd

I can think of worse things than winning the league with a dingle in charge

Edited July 18 by Oldgregg86

[MarkBRFC71]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

He never mentioned Premiership, you did and it was a silly point the first time you mentioned it, just like its a silly point now.

To want an English manager to mange the national side is a fair ask, its a popular opinion, especially amongst fans that go to games, which says a lot for me.  

Unfortunately there are no English managers at the level of some of the foreign candidates mentioned - if there were then of course that would be ideal and they might be preferred - but there just aren't.  To deliberately choose an inferior candidate just because he's English would be daft - the FA needs to at least be reaching out to the best managers around irrespective of where they're from, and if they're keen but the timing doesn't work, waiting for them to become available.

Or are you seriously telling me that if Pep or Klopp said 'come and get me' to the FA, you'd still prefer to go for a Potter or a Lampard?

 

[ABBEY]

ABKK

anyone but klipityy klop

[oldjamfan1]

6 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Wrong, my opinion has and always will be that England Senior National Football manager should be Englishman and we tried this foreign option twice and didn't improve. Capello was disaster. 

The next England manager should be English. 

 

This notion is odd. 'Foreigners' aren't exactly a homogenous group are they, and just because a couple of them have failed (I don't think Sven did too badly actually) you'd be happy to turn down the likes of Pep and Jurgen? Wow.

[oldjamfan1]

21 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

He's too attacking for me... Great entertainment but doesnt set up teams to win in my view 

I think Celtic fans might hold a different view tbf.

He would utilise our current on-field strengths I think.

[Dreams of 1995]

I’d like the idea of Ange tbf

Jose Mourinho has a lot of friends in England but has unfortunately just taken the Fenerbache role

To be honest, I’ll support whoever the FA puts in. Be it English or not. If it’s Lee Carsley I won’t bitch or moan about his lack of good club experience because it doesn’t matter. Southgate had next to none, de la Fuente had none. Go back years and Beckenbauer had none. Literally that blokes first job! Look up Alberto Parreira. Was an expert at international football. Had 0 club success. Joachim Low was managing at some terrible levels before joining the German national set up. Before him, Germany appointed Klinsmann who had a good World Cup, against all expectations

Our very own Mark Hughes went to Wales first

Point being, if the coach is good enough he will be a success. People seem to rubbish Lee Carsley. The man won the U21 European Championship. Maybe he was lucky too 

[RTM08]

Ultimately we'll see who is chosen, and they will get their chance, English or otherwise. I highly doubt we're ever going to get runs as "easy" as the last few tournaments, so whoever comes in is going to have to step it up as far as the football goes. 

There will be risks with all of them, but most of the names mentioned certainly have both positives and negatives. Even the likes of Pep and Klopp have big question marks when it comes to tournament football, and for me Pep's football is as boring as Southgate's but in a different manner. 

They have some time now to properly look at it and not rush a decision and hopefully they have a succession plan in place.

[chaddyrovers]

10 hours ago, davulsukur said:

The next England manager probably will be English because the FA are fairly useless and will just pick the easiest solution to them, rather than showing any ambition.

OK, so it's done, if the next England manager isn't English, you'll not be supporting them until an Englishman is appointed 👍

My last post on this subject, 

I don't believe it is the easiest solution but the right and correct solution to appoint an Englishman and what other major footballing nation would appoint a foreign manager like France, Germany, Spain and Italy? no they wouldn't so why should we? 

7 hours ago, MarkBRFC71 said:

So based on your logic no English club that wants to win the Prem should ever appoint an English manager because not one has ever won it.  Gotcha.

wrong, cos that's club football not international football. Gav already posted to you which is my point

[Upside Down]

I think the manager or head coach should be from the nation they are representing.

I don't see why the qualification should be any different from the way players are selected. You pick the best available.

If Howe or Potter is the best England have then so be it. Maybe there should be some impetus to develop better coaches.

Edited July 18 by Upside Down

[wilsdenrover]

8 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

I think the manager or head coach should be from the nation they are representing.

I don't see why the qualification should be any different from the way players are selected. You pick the best available.

If Howe or Potter is the best England have then so be it. Maybe there should be some impetus to develop better coaches.

I wonder whether Pep has an English gran 🤔😄

[M_B]

21 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

I think the manager or head coach should be from the nation they are representing.

I don't see why the qualification should be any different from the way players are selected. You pick the best available.

If Howe or Potter is the best England have then so be it. Maybe there should be some impetus to develop better coaches.

Looks like all the English experts off the telly have fooked off on holiday, just when the country is looking for someone to put their hand up. 

[jim mk2]

49 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

My last post on this subject, 

I don't believe it is the easiest solution but the right and correct solution to appoint an Englishman and what other major footballing nation would appoint a foreign manager like France, Germany, Spain and Italy? no they wouldn't so why should we? 

As it happens I wouldn’t be against Howe getting  the job because he’s a very good candidate but the reality based on past performance of English coaches at national and club level is that the odds on him actually winning a trophy are virtually nil. That’s why England should consider a foreign coach because appointing an Englishman is virtually guaranteeing that the 58 years and counting since the one and only triumph will continue. 

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

My last post on this subject, 

I don't believe it is the easiest solution but the right and correct solution to appoint an Englishman and what other major footballing nation would appoint a foreign manager like France, Germany, Spain and Italy? no they wouldn't so why should we? 

wrong, cos that's club football not international football. Gav already posted to you which is my point

Those countries have plenty of top home grown coaches. England doesnt

[wilsdenrover]

5 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Those countries have plenty of top home grown coaches. England doesnt

Apparently talent can’t make up for where you were born.

[roversfan99]

Everyone would prefer an English manager. That being said, the quality are so poor that the decision then becomes whether you prioritise quality or being English, knowing that you cant really have both.

People referring to Capello or Eriksson as proof that a foreign manager doesnt work totally undermines their argument because it moves away from their desire to have an Englishman and implies that foreign managers wouldnt work, which doesnt make sense. Those 2 underachieved because they were Capello and Eriksson and they as individuals failed, not because they were not English.

People also giving examples of managers with poor track records prior to managing certain countries is also a backwards argument. Almost as if we should look for failures.

Its like saying Rovers should sign players with poor careers to date because say Gestede had struggled prior to coming here. We would still be better off signing players who we could have more confidence in succeeding. Obviously a poor record doesnt guarantee that a player or manager will then struggle in their next job, or vice versa, but you wouldnt actively choose failure over success.

[Norbert Rassragr]

The logic that Rooney and Lampard should be considered because they screwed up in club management, and may be brilliant national managers is cretinous. "Oh, their mum gave birth to them on this patch of land instead of that patch of land excuses all those games they lost. They were good players so it will work out." A clown is a clown, whatever their first language or accent.

[Gav]

4 hours ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

The logic that Rooney and Lampard should be considered because they screwed up in club management, and may be brilliant national managers is cretinous. "Oh, their mum gave birth to them on this patch of land instead of that patch of land excuses all those games they lost. They were good players so it will work out." A clown is a clown, whatever their first language or accent.

I don't think anyone on here has suggest Rooney or Lampard for national manager, someone mentioned Lampard working with FA currently, which could get him an interview, but I've not read anyone calling for either of those 2 as next England manager.

[Dreams of 1995]

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

People also giving examples of managers with poor track records prior to managing certain countries is also a backwards argument. Almost as if we should look for failures.

Its like saying Rovers should sign players with poor careers to date because say Gestede had struggled prior to coming here. We would still be better off signing players who we could have more confidence in succeeding. Obviously a poor record doesnt guarantee that a player or manager will then struggle in their next job, or vice versa, but you wouldnt actively choose failure over success.

No "people" have said this

The point being made was that international football is different. For every manager who has had international success only, there will also be a manager that has had success at club and international level. Some had success at club level before international level, some didn't, some had their breakthrough at international level

You are creating an argument in order to argue against it

Whereas your posts have been quite clear. You think that success at club level is precedent to a good appointment. Otherwise, they are "unproven or proven failures". But history in football tells you that this isn't entirely true. I won't be calling an appointment of Lee Carsley a disaster appointment because throughout the history of football managers have had great success in international football without ever really bothering with club football

So the examples are important in this discussion. Not a "backwards argument" and certainly does not mean we should "look for failures"

And for your last point, it is not like saying that. It is like saying that you should not start writing people off before they arrive. When people say they won't judge or that others shouldn't, it doesn't mean you can't have your moan about it. Feel free to. But there's a few posters here who clearly don't think success at club level is precedent to being a success as England manager. And I agree.

Edited July 19 by Dreams of 1995