[Archived] Big Ron Forced To Resign

[broadsword]

Time to bring back "The Black and White Minstrel Show".

With your host and compere, Big Ron! He could do the closing number as well.

Would go down a treat! It wouldn't be racist, just old-fashioned.

Edited April 23, 2004 by Bryan

[Tris]

..at the end he said he'd still shake hands with Big Ron and he still had a lot of repect for him

Sorry to pull you up for your spelling, but I think that should have been rixpeck

Edited April 23, 2004 by Tris

[Morph]

Don't know or care what the Scum et al. have made of Ron's comment (don't read the gutter press), but some of you are really stretching to defend the indefensible. Regardless of whether or not he meant his comment to be aired, aired it was, and in the light of that his position became untenable. The points about free speech and political correctness are bogus; in almost any job these days, if you use racist language in a derogetory manner (which Ron certainly did), you are guilty of gross misconduct, end of story. Knowing this, and in acknowledgement of the seriousness of his error, Ron offered his resignation and it was accepted. Regarding the ITV interview, the guy wasn't asking "Are you a racist?" as some people have suggested, but rather "Can you accept that your statement may have been interpretted as racist?" which is quite different. Personally I've always liked the guy, his commentaries were always entertaining and his column in The Guardian made for good reading; but to allow him to remain in either job could appear to condone (however obliquely) what was said - something neither company can afford to do. It's a pity, but he only has himself to blame.

[Ninjathunder]

Political correctness gone mad, IMO. Fair enough, he shouldnt have said what he did but they were comments made in private, accidentally broadcast. He should have been made to apologise, perhaps a fine as a rap on the knuckles, but no way should he lose his job over it. Whether he harbours old-fashioned views on the use of outdated language or not, the fact that such words have never found their way into his commentaries shows sufficient professional decorum, so why should he lose his job?

More likely if he hadnt resigned ITV would have feared a backlash from blacks boycotting his commentaries & therefore less revenue which, as we know from our debates on The Premiership on this site, is really all that ITV is interested in.

As Withnail said, "...what absolute twaddle".

[key76]

[Tom Pringle]

[Billy Castell]

at those pictures.

Ian Wright complains about Ron. I heard Wright on Radio 5 yeaterday, and he was saying, he was making little comments about him when they were working together at the last world cup. Ian did seem genuinely upset and angry at Ron.

[speeeeeeedie]

Big Ron was was one of the funniest commentators on TV. He and Clive were a good double act; they, together, will be missed by many. I think his comment was inappropriate, should not have been said and he deserved to go.

However, the bigotry still lies within football, not just Big Ron. It is a very secluded business where players and coaches speak to only players and coaches, who are in turn looked after by club admin staff. The real world is a long way away from these people, yet they are adored my thousands each week. The recent spate of football indiscretions should highlight the perverse culture they belong to; and I'm not talking about Beckham, plenty of people cheat on their spouses. I love football and always will but I think it's better for the game that players do speak like pre-programmed robots, becasue as long as they are involved in football they can be very stupid individuals. But get them on their own and most of them are nice blokes.

Sorry to digress. I do, though, think that Ron's legacy to commentating will be his final faux pas. I'll never forget what he said to an interviewer when he was manager of WBA after a European tie.

When asked to comment on the standard of refereeing, his reply was:

"It's not my policy to comment on referees, and I'm certainly not making an exception for this idiot."

Priceless.

[Ossydave]

Not sure if anyones interested anymore but you can hear the audio clip of Rons comments here:

LINK

At least he has the deceny to congratulate Monaco at the end

[soueyisgod]

The guy talked rubbish anyway!!!

[thenodrog]

The ful transcript of what Big Ron said is here.

I can understand many people cribbing about the style but not about the content.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

I wouldn't want to condone or justify what Ron said. The 'N' word isn't something that I'd use myself.

However, as Bobby Barnes, the former West Ham winger said yesterday: "We have to remember that Ron is part of a bygone generation when words like this were more acceptable than today."

Atkinson has paid a heavy price for his comments. As well as losing his ITV job, he's also lost his weekly column in the Guardian and advertising contracts with Lucozade and the West Bromwich Building Society.

Personally, I would have given Ron a reprimand and a warning rather than forced him out of his job for his remarks.

He's always struck me as a reasonable bloke, but not the best in the world in terms of his tactical knowledge. Having said that, he still managed to win trophies with 3 different English clubs.

At Man United, Ron was actually more successful in his first four years than Fergie was. Atkinson won two FA Cups between 1981 and 1985 - compared with Ferguson who could only manage a sole FA Cup win after four years in charge. Depending on your point of view, Ron was either rather unlucky to be sacked at Old Trafford - or perhaps it was a case of Ferguson being mightily fortunate to survive.

Prior to Man Utd, Ron had an attractive attacking team at the Hawthorns. Under his management, West Brom reached the FA Cup semi final in 1978, and the following year finished 3rd in the League, as well as having a decent run in the UEFA Cup.

Atkinson won the League Cup with Sheffield Wednesday in 1991, and triumphed in the same competition with Aston Villa in 1994.

In 1992-93, Villa came close to winning the first ever Premiership, but were pipped at the post by Man Utd.

The significant acheivements he's had in football have now been sadly devalued by those foolish comments he made at the Stade Louis in Monaco.

I dont understand why calling a black person a nigger is racist where in rap and all that other crap music every other word is nigger.

I think you've made a reasonable point Jordan, that there does appear to be a slight dichotomy here - in terms of when black people openly refer to themselves as niggers.

In the late 1980's, we had that notorious rap group "Niggaz With Attitude" (also known as NWA) - who as well as having a large number of rather unpleasant expletives in their records - seemed to be boasting and taking a great deal of pride in the fact that they were (in their words) niggers.

Since then, a whole host of black gangsta rappers have taken their lead and done the same thing.

The actual origins of the word come from the Latin niger, which means black. So in terms of the etymology of the language, the word nigger, in one sense, is actually a factually correct statement.

However, I wouldn't condone the use of it today, as the word has obviously taken on a rather more offensive meaning in recent times.

Back in the 50's and early 60's, when Ron grew up, the phrase "Nigger in the Woodpile" was quite widespread, and I don't think it was deemed to be offensive. We have to accept though that the times have changed, and what was acceptable back then probably isn't acceptable today.

But to the ears and minds of the idiots (black and white) who listen to rap music - the word nigger has probably become almost a complimentary word to them.

For Big Ron, his days as a footballing pundit are undoubtedly well and truly over now. It's a sad way for his career to end. But it seems as if his comment in Monaco wasn't a one-off.

There have been reports that Ron also made a racist outburst on ITV during the 1990 World Cup.

Those watching in certain foreign countries on a live satellite feed heard Atkinson use derogatory language to describe a Cameroon player.

Midway through the first half of the match - during the quarter-final where England eventually beat Cameroon 3-2 courtesy of two Gary Lineker penalites - Atkinson said that one of the Cameroon players didn't have a brain.

"You mean a football brain don't you Ron?" said Brian Moore, his co-commentator, anxious to avoid any complaints. Ron replied: "I'll only get into trouble if his mother is watching the game sitting in a tree."

ITV Sport received seven complaints from satellite viewers abroad who were upset at the remarks. Atkinson's comments were not heard anywhere in the UK.

Ron ought to have learnt his lesson from that episode in 1990. To get caught out again making foolish unguarded comments in front of the microphone was a big mistake on his part.

Edited April 23, 2004 by Anti Euro Smiths Fan

[broadsword]

Oh for goodness' sakes, give him his job back. If he was racist then he wouldn't have bought black players.

It's easy/ right on to condemn but it takes a bit more balls to stand up and say that he's not a racist. I don't believe he is. He is eccentric and I can understand how he's upset people.

But, at the risk of being seen to be naive, the term "racist" does not sit easily with his name.

He's made a very silly mistake, he's apologised and should pay his penance. Then he should be allowed to have his job back, on the condition that he won't be a naughty pooper.

[Paul Mellelieu]

It's difficult to imagine something more offensive than calling a black person what Ron did. I mean who lets a word like "nigger" slip out? As Ian Wright said Ron uses that type of language regularly. And the "Ron is old so eh says that kind of thing" is another crap argument. Most people of Ron's generation do not use that kind of racist language.

If I used that kind of language at work I'd be out - and rightly so - and so should Ron. You have to have standards in public life and not using the most craven racist stereotyping language is one of them.

As for black people using the term. Firstly, it's not something that's done generally. It's like gay people using "queer", or Irish people "Paddy", or Spurs' fans "yid". It's about about people who suffer from discrimination reclaiming the langusge that's used against them and using it as a badge of honour, stikcing two fingers up to the bigots.

[Flopsy]

amen

the only problem is that we will have to listen to more of Clive "I LOVE MAN U" Tydsdale

[broadsword]

Oh for goodness' sakes, give him his job back. If he was racist then he wouldn't have bought black players.

It's easy/ right on to condemn but it takes a bit more balls to stand up and say that he's not a racist. I don't believe he is. He is eccentric and I can understand how he's upset people.

But, at the risk of being seen to be naive, the term "racist" does not sit easily with his name.

He's made a very silly mistake, he's apologised and should pay his penance. Then he should be allowed to have his job back, on the condition that he won't be a naughty pooper.

Ooops.

Forsooth, 'twas drunk.

[FourLaneBlue]

But to the ears and minds of the idiots (black and white) who listen to rap music - the word nigger has probably become almost a complimentary word to them.

It's all to do with context. 'Nigger' has always been a derogatory term when applied by white people to black people, however in the 50s and 60s it was utilised by black communities in an attempt to wrest the word back and use it positively. In such circumstances it can be used as a term of endearment even. It's isn't particularlu common, other than urbanised areas of major cities. Certainly there has been a backlash from other members of the black community (if indeed there is one) against the use of such a loaded word. In linguistic analysis, it's never ever the word itself that causes hurt (how can it? it's merely a few charcters) but the meaning and connotation behind the word can. True, some black communities use the word 'nigger' towards each other. That doesn't mean that it is the same when a white person uses it dismissively about a black person.

As for 'sticks and stones...' well, yes, words can't hurt but the meaning behind them can.

I'm sure Ron'll be back but for now he realises that you can't spout racist remarks while at work.

[BRFC4EVA]

Ron is a fecking discrace and an embarisment to the country.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

In an interview with the Observer today, Big Ron has again apologised for his offending comments. He said that his mistake in Monaco will cost him around £1m.

Ron says that when he was younger phrases like "nigger brown" were commonplace, but he again denies that he's a racist.

Atkinson alleges that in the late 1970's Arsenal had a policy of not wanting black players in their squad.

Later on, in the early 1980's Arsenal changed this policy.

Ron's interview today is below at:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/sto...1202686,00.html

Edited April 25, 2004 by Anti Euro Smiths Fan

[RoverDrake]

Why has Ian Wright only just started coming out with all his input?

[colin]

Ron says that when he was younger phrases like "nigger brown" were commonplace,

My elderly neighbour used to have a dark brown cat she called "Nigger."

It was a hell of a cringe when she used to call it in to be fed.

[Bobby G]

ITV commentary is the most biased and poor commentary ive heard.

Ron Atkinson was good fun,but his excessively Pro-English commentary was tiresome.

Never gave credit to the opposition in Champions League,its always about the English team.They have to take a page out of the SKY and BBC teams.

Dont get me started on Clive"I love United"Tylsley

[mrsjansen]

Didn't the same happen with Jim Bowen on Radio Lancashire? He was made to resign because of his comments. Not condoning it, but you can't do to one and not to the other for the same thing.

Besides ITV is rubbish when it comes to football, and it should be taken off ITV altogether.

[Billy Castell]

Ron says that when he was younger phrases like "nigger brown" were commonplace,

My elderly neighbour used to have a dark brown cat she called "Nigger."

It was a hell of a cringe when she used to call it in to be fed.

And the black labrador owned by the damnbusters.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

Just to illustrate the point (again without condoning Atkinson's words) that in Ron's younger days the word "nigger" would have been fairly commonplace....

A popular crime novel written by Agatha Christie, below, was called "Ten Little Niggers".

A board game based on the well known poem "ten little nigger boys" would also have been on sale back in the time when Ron was growing up.

It was only in 1978 that the title of Christie's novel was changed. Before then, the 'N' word wasn't deemed to be so offensive.

Times have obviously changed now - although as has been mentioned before, a number of rap groups still continue to use the word.