[Archived] Season Ticket Sales?

[Ossydave]

Our supporters have seen a hell of a lot over they years - they know when something isn't right. You can't kid people who have seen the players we've seen over the years. They know when someone is giving their all and when someone isn't.

.......and that's all we are asking for. When you've seen (to pick just a few at random) Speedie, Garner, Shearer, Hendry, Gennoe, Reid, Barker, Moran, Atkins, Fazakerly, Wright, Brotherston and I don't know how many others dieing for the cause, you know, you really know when a player is committed.

Steven Reid comitted? Are you mad?!?! ( )

Who out of the current squad would you say is committed Paul?

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Are we talking about the same Newcastle who had gates around the 12k mark back in the early 80's..DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE!!

[Ossydave]

Are we talking about the same Newcastle who had gates around the 12k mark back in the early 80's..DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE!!

Or the Blackburn that had 5k gates?

I'm talking about now, stop living in the past FFS.

[ABBEY]

[in my opinion, Steads rise to fame at Ewood has been down to his hunger to succeed. He has become a fans favorite not just because of his goals but also his willingness to chase for the ball.

He's also a 21-year-old sprog. If we had a whole team of young players there would be no need to worry over hunger and desire.

Matteo is a reasonable signing (injury provided) but I am concerned that Souness has recruited yet another player in his thirties.

Jack Walker's advice to Dalglish when he went on his spending spree was to try to buy "young and British" but by and large Souness seems to rely on experience.

Assuming Rovers line against West Brom something like this,

Friedel (age 33)

Neill (26)

Short (36)/Amoruso (33)

Matteo (30)

Gray (30 next month)

Thompson (26)/Emerton (25)

Ferguson (26)

Flitcroft (31)/Tugay (34 next month)

De Pedro (29?)

Stead (21)

Cole (32)/Dickov (31)

...... I would say it's a good job Thompson and Ferguson are available for selection again otherwise the line-up would look distinctly aged.

younger than boltons average age of 101!

[ABBEY]

Are we talking about the same Newcastle who had gates around the 12k mark back in the early 80's..DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE!!

i remember a night game 0-0,at st james and a gate of 8k.

now going onto the likes of the north east teams,in for example newcastle area.there are clubs like man u ,liverpoo,everton,rovers,scumley,nobend,bolton ,rochdale,blackpool,wigan etc.so its no wonder they get big gates 50k.....if us lancs clubbed together,what would we have 200?300k.

boro has a massive catchment area as well,if we had same area without the histories of our clubs it would be the same for us.

simple idea for ewood WHY NOT HAVE A BILLBOARD WITH DATE AND TIMES ON BOLTON RD AND OTHER SITES OF TRAFFIC IN/AROUND THE AREA.

[FourLaneBlue]

My point still stands, Blackburn is not a footballing town IMHO.

And my point still stands. Blackburn is a footballing town IMHO.

Fair enough...we'll have to agree to disagree! If everyone agreed it'd be a very dull life!

[Scotty]

I always post this when our attendances are discussed. It was a reply I made a year or so ago in response to a post by Gav. He made the point that our attendances should be better because we were having relative success compared to the 70's & 80's. Here it is:

There's the rub Gav. You're right, it doesn't get much better to you and me, but to the "new" fans who've only become interested in Blackburn since Jack Walker, Shearer, Dalgliesh et al it did get much better. They were introduced to the Rovers when the team was challenging for the title, had numerous England internationals, and were playing in the Champions League. Today's team is a bit of a come down from those heady days.

And whether you like it or not, these "new" fans are just as important and worthy as us old uns.

The point I'm trying to make is that our modern-day active fanbase peaks at about 30,000. This is pretty good for a town of our size and is certainly a lot better than any of our Lancashire neighbours. When times are good almost all of the 30,000 will attend the games, when times are bad some of them won't. It's always been the same.

When I first started going to Ewood, about 25 years ago, our active fanbase was probably only around 15,000. When the team was bad only about 6,000 of those actually turned up to the games.

Comparing us to other Premiership clubs doesn't work because they almost all have larger fanbases than us. They come from big cities and we come from a town. The other clubs have increased the capacities of their stadia in recent years to allow more of their fanbase to attend. Hence the rises in attendance seen at most of the other Premiership clubs.

Bolton probably have a similar fanbase to us. However, Bolton are having their most successful season in years, they are at a peak in terms of their appeal. So, more of their fanbase turn up at the matches.

What I think is happening throughout football at the moment (something that Jim has alluded to) is that all clubs' fanbases are reducing. For most of the Premiership clubs it hasn't become noticeable yet.

For example, if you say Everton (just picked at random) have a fanbase of 100,000. Two years ago, 80,000 of those fans will have wanted to attend matches. Now, I think that figure has probably gone down to say 60,000. But as their ground only holds 40,000 it's still full every week. Our ground is bigger than our fanbase so the reduction in support is more obvious.

Believe me though, if the game continues in its current direction then reduced support it will become more obvious throughout the country, not just at Ewood.

I still think it's relevant. The bottom line is that our support peaked the year after we won the Championship. We're not as successful now so the crowds are less.

We're also in the almost unique position (throughout The Premiership anyway) of our fans knowing that they can attend virtually any game they want without buying a season ticket in advance. The incentive to buy a season ticket for the Rovers isn't as high as it is at other Premiership clubs.

[Uddersfelt Blue]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but haven't the obscene ticket prices got something to do with it?

When you consider what the average wage must be in the Blackburn area there must be a lot of families who simply can't afford to shell out that kind of money for a football match.

Why for the same as one match you can have a month's worth on Sky.

The Leeds fiasco will do finances in the game in this country a lot of good. Clubs need to get the wage levels down so that tickets can once again be affordable.

[92er]

As I've read the last few pages of this posting, what has delighted me is how positive so many fans are about the Rovers and how much general agreement there is.I think there have been some great postings.

[tashor]

That was a great post Scotty, still is.

[RevidgeBlue]

Are we talking about the same Newcastle who had gates around the 12k mark back in the early 80's..DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE!!

Or the Blackburn that had 5k gates?

I'm talking about now, stop living in the past FFS.

But you're living in the past as well, you're trying to support your point by banging on about attendance figures for the Blackburn Rovers pre Jack Walker.

Effectively 2 different clubs and situations. Chalk and cheese.

And to compare Blackburn with a place the size of Newcastle is with all due respect ridiculous. Yes the fans love the game with a passion there but that isn't matched in many places. If Arsenal were a town, would you call it a "footballing town?" By your criteria you wouldn't.

[RevidgeBlue]

I think Scotty is more or less alone on this forum in recognising the challenge we face due to the restricted size of our fan base.

If we naff poor old Joe Bloggs off with poor home displays and/or by selling the star attraction there aren't as many people out there ready and willing to take Joe's place as compared to other places.

People get just as disillusioned from time to time at these other clubs but the effect is less noticeable because for the time being at least there'll always be some other (mug?) willing to take Joe's place.

As Scotty memorably and succinctly put it once, "We're no better or no worse than anywhere else, there's just less of us"

[FourLaneBlue]

I think Scotty is more or less alone on this forum in recognising the challenge we face due to the restricted size of our fan base.

Err....hello? I'm here you know! Apart from my dozens of posts making that point then yes Scotty is more or less alone....

Be fair. A hell of a lot of the posters on here realise the problems Rovers face due to their location.

Edited July 8, 2004 by FourLaneBlue

[Ste B]

If we naff poor old Joe Bloggs off with poor home displays and/or by selling the star attraction there aren't as many people out there ready and willing to take Joe's place as compared to other places.

Good points Simon, but the same also applies that if we went out and bought Duff back for 17 Million it wont put nearly enough bums on seats to make it financially viable.

[Tris]

As Scotty memorably and succinctly put it once, "We're no better or no worse than anywhere else, there's just less of us"

He meant fewer of us.

Otherwise that bit isn't under any dispute.

What is worth nipping in the bud is the idea that selling certain players or the style of play or comments about cup ambitions are primary factors in influencing season ticket sales.

They may be secondary factors, but all the evidence from all over the country is that football crowds are growing. Rovers are bucking that trend because supply outstrips demand.

Leeds have sold the family silver, the family, and the rights to adopt the tea lady's kids. They'll still have a bigger average crowd than us next season.

[RevidgeBlue]

I think Scotty is more or less alone on this forum in recognising the challenge we face due to the restricted size of our fan base.

Err....hello? I'm here you know! Apart from my dozens of posts making that point then yes Scotty is more or less alone....

Be fair. A hell of a lot of the posters on here realise the problems Rovers face due to their location.

O.K. both of you then.

Be fair, I did say "more or less" alone.

[RevidgeBlue]

What is worth nipping in the bud is the idea that selling certain players or the style of play or comments about cup ambitions are primary factors in influencing season ticket sales.

If you broadened the point re: comments about cup competitions to include negative statements about our ambitions generally I would say they're ALL primary factors influencing season ticket sales.

Obviously the other one being lack of finance in some households.

[Tris]

If you broadened the point re: comments about cup competitions to include negative statements about our ambitions generally I would say they're ALL primary factors influencing season ticket sales.

Obviously the other one being lack of finance in some households.

Can you remind us of the negative statements ? I'm struggling to remember Souness and/or Williams admitting to the assembled journalists that we were out to lose a few cup games.

And lack of finance is only a factor because as you and Scotty and FLB and UT Cobley point out, there's no-one in the queue to replace the skint people.

If Rovers relocated to Chalfont-St-Latimer there'd be thousands lining up for JW Central season tickets.

So finance remains a secondary factor behind the one and only primary factor - supply and demand.

[RevidgeBlue]

Can you remind us of the negative statements ?  I'm struggling to remember Souness and/or Williams admitting to the assembled journalists that we were out to lose a few cup games.

Admitting as GS has done on numerous occasions that the cups "aren't a priority" is tantamount to saying you're not going to give them your best shot. From what has been said at Fans Forums it would seem it has been recognised within the club that this sort of message is counterproductive.

Saying that "survival is the aim" (and again the message has been modified more recently) smacks of lack of ambition and sends out the signal that the season is going to be a grim cheerless struggle.

The other important factor I forgot to list is the probability of missing a few games due to Sky chopping and changing. Again this is currently likely to impact on Rovers far more than other clubs due to the finite fan base.

Where's Chalfont St Latimer?

Edited July 8, 2004 by RevidgeBlue

[Paul]

I think Scotty is more or less alone on this forum in recognising the challenge we face due to the restricted size of our fan base.........

If we naff poor old Joe Bloggs off with poor home displays

Me too please Rev. Stiil is a great post Scotty.

[Paul]

Steven Reid comitted? Are you mad?!?! ( )

Who out of the current squad would you say is committed Paul?

Nicky, not Steven

In the current squad? I'm not sure who is committed to the cause. I feel an affinity with Gallagher, Jansen, Stead, Flitcroft, Short, Tugay, Gresko, Gray and Friedel. If the rest went today I wouldn't lose any sleep. These days I just support the club, in the past it was different....it's very difficult to explain or describe but some of you will just know what I mean by instinct.

David Speedie? OK he played for a few clubs but you knew he wouldn't let you down. He wasn't a Blackburn son, he wasn't Garner, but you could believe in him. That's what I mean. Then take Emerton as a modern day example, well he just doesn't give a tuppenny damn. A bit of me died when Shearer left and I just don't trust footballers anymore - the same will happen for a lot of Everton fans.

[Manchester Blue]

I think Scotty is more or less alone on this forum in recognising the challenge we face due to the restricted size of our fan base.

Err....hello? I'm here you know! Apart from my dozens of posts making that point then yes Scotty is more or less alone....

Be fair. A hell of a lot of the posters on here realise the problems Rovers face due to their location.

O.K. both of you then.

Be fair, I did say "more or less" alone.

It's still not an accurate point however many you add Revidge. Scotty's post is very good and the points it makes are accurate but to suggest he is alone in 'understanding' the challenges is frankly nonsense and quite insulting. Of course Blackburn is a small town and I have argued many times with opposition fans about our crowds being decent in comparison.

The fact is though you just want to concentrate on your own part of the argument whhich is size of town. I've never said the club should be dragging in thousands more I just want to know why our crowds are dropping even when we have done well.

You argue selling our best player(s) even though that was after the event. You then argue cup games and I rightly point out that Bolton have a far worse attitude to cup games than us changing the full team at times. What happens? The fans just don't turn up, but they are back for the sell-out league games the next week. Why's that then or will you just argue a different point again.

I could finish by saying only Tris truly understands the situation, but a) it's not true, B ) it's insulting and degrades the many good points raised by people I don't necessarily agree with like Scotty, Alan, FLB & Paul and you even.

Edited July 8, 2004 by Manchester Blue

[Chris_Roe]

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned about rovers attendances, while we aren't great, lets not forget all clubs go through good and bad patches, its based on a multiple of things, not just performances, for gods sakes some clubs attendances go up when they get relegated... you know the situation, poor performances in relegation season, suddenly a burts of optimism when they go down, cus of a few good signings and its all sweetness and light again..

As for ups and downs, does anyone remember a friday night match at chelsea ? just over 7000 attendance in the mid late 80's (Faz''s record appearance in rovers shirt ) as i said things do change, fans are and can be very fickle... it isn't just small town clubs !!!

Just for the record speedie scored a cracker from 30 yards for chelsea !

[RevidgeBlue]

I've never said the club should be dragging in thousands more I just want to know why our crowds are dropping even when we have done well.

You argue selling our best player(s) even though that was after the event. You then argue cup games and I rightly point out that Bolton have a far worse attitude to cup games than us changing the full team at times. What happens? The fans just don't turn up, but they are back for the sell-out league games the next week. Why's that then or will you just argue a different point again.

To me anyway it doesn't seem difficult to explain. We were hit by a fairly unusual set of circumstances.

When gates recorded a modest few hundred increase to an average of 26,200 in 2002/3 it's probably fair to say we were not that far off our natural current maximum given we only recorded an all time high of just over 27,000 the season after winning the Premiership

Having finished sixth I personally expected us to move forward and strengthen by adding retaining the players we had and adding maybe one top quality player to the squad. Instead, regardless of whether you think the club had no option, we lost our two most "glamorous" players in quick succession.

I don't think it's entirely accurate to say that gates were down before Duff and Dunn left. Dunn left at the start of the close season so it's difficult to argue that had no effect. The previous 2 summers were also rife with speculation about Duff leaving so quite a few people must have been waiting to see what happened there as well and some of those obviously didn't renew either.

Whilst we were losing our two star names and home grown boys, and slumping from 6th to 15th over at Bolton, they continued with the consistent improvement they've shown since being promoted with us. Yet despite Bolton being twice the size of Blackburn only last season did they record a higher attendance. Given the extremely limited assets they've had at their disposal over the last three years compared with us they've wildly exceeded expectations.

All this wailing about "why are we the ONLY Club to be losing support?" presupposes that people from Blackburn have three heads or are different from anywhere else or something. This is plainly nonsense. It's a bit of all the factors mentioned previously impacting on us to a greater degree than would be the case elsewhere due to our smaller fanbase.

[RevidgeBlue]

Who's to say attendances haven't improved in relative terms over the last 10 seasons anyway?

Three of the first four gates in 1994 to watch Hendry Shearer Le Saux Sutton et al (who finished 2nd in 1993/4)

Leicester 21050

Coventry 21657

Aston Villa 22694 (at this point seven games in we must have been top)

Inbetween was a 26,500 gate for the visit of Everton