[Archived] Will You Show The Fla A Yellow Card?

[roversWASmylife]

Found it of interest to me.

Fans find it hard to swallow

Well written.

[roversmum]

I saw a copy of this letter and was extremely annoyed about it.

Jason is absolutely correct.

I understand that the police are also videoing the fans during the matches.

Rovers, if you want to keep your fans, this is not the way to go about it.

[neekoy]

I think the point is being missed. It is not about the choice of patrons to stand or sit. What is about is MANAGING RISK

While probably 99% of patrons would do the safe thing what of a small percentage of those who don't? We live in an increasingly legal society where people are being sued for reasons 20 years would be seen as comment sense issues, the thing is it isn't 20 years ago.

The clubs and footballing stadiums are taking action to limit the chances of their getting their asses sued off.

This is not a right of the footballing public, it is the right of the footballing clubs to protect themselves against unneccessary future litigation.

[CAPT KAYOS]

So who has received one of these letters as I haven't and I consistently stand.

However, if I do then I'm with Abbey on this and another season ticket wil be lost.

This is yet another aspect of football that is killing the game in this country -the enjoyment level is falling considerably yet its becoming more expensive with clubs claiming poverty, yet the fans are being robbed by mercenaries on and off the pitch

WHY CAN'T WE HAVE OUR SAY?????????????

Its not just at our club that there is this problem - remember it seemed to be starting at MU - but oh no they can't pick on them as they have numbers and power so now they are picking on others with less resource.

The annoying fact in all this matter is that the bodies that have the power to do something about it - the Clubs and the FA appear to be totally ignoring the fact, yet it is common knowledge in Football that this is a problem.

Its about time something is done - we have become a NAMBY PAMBY nation with full of people who feel hard done too, have forgotten what their legs are for and claim its snowing if the sun doesn't get out of bed -in other words SOFT!!!!!!!!

[bob fleming]

Yeah - fair point neekoy. Let's be honest though you're not telling me that there aren't disclaimers on match tickets / within season tickets that accounts for this sort of thing? e.g. "If the clumsy oaf next to you pokes your eye out during a goal celebration then the Football Club cannot be held responsible" or "Don't come running to us when you fall down all the steep stairs at the back of the Jack Walker Stand because there isn't a hand rail and end up flat on your arse on top of Mark Bowen in the dug out as the club cannot be held responsible".

Either way how hard would it be to insert these clauses into the ticket / season tickets? The Blackburn End has been "watered down". It's no longer the "kop" end. No longer is it the place where all the singers go, where all those who want to create an atmosphere go. It's become just another stand in just another modern football stadium (well it's not that bad - but it's not what it was). The club should sell it differently. Our football club isn't alone in having these problems though - as has been well documented. There seems to be a "ground-swell" of opinion that a percentage of fans would like a return or a partial return to terracing. Or at the very least, to be able to stand in your own seated "area".

What we have at the moment though, which thankfully Jason brought to more peoples attention, is the heavy handed tactics employed by our club. How can they do this? Some jumped up steward with too much authority takes it upon himself to eject our fans from the stadium. Why not nip down to the Darwen End if you're that keen? Get their fans to sit down. Do the club think we can't see that far and see the opposition fans standing? (or are there too many of them? What if the entire BBE stood? What would happen then?) Double standards don't wash. If these stewards who are so keen to kick people out are that keen to help the club can I suggest that they're better off pulling a few more pints at half time? (Go and help the other two).

Anyway I doubt these ideas will be explored. Let's be honest the council by and large don't give two hoots about the club and I'm sure they'll hold the licence that keeps the ground open. Which obviously makes things extremely difficult for the club (as I'm sure John Williams will be telling us in the LET before long in response to Jason's article).

Similarly the Government won't do anything about it either. Why bother? Taylor report / lessons from Hillsborough etc - it's all in black and white. Standing = Dangerous / Sitting = Safe. Everyone knows that. Apart from football fans - who (although perhaps in the vast minority) are still prepared to take the risk (risk their own lives by the sounds of things) and stand at games as it creates a better atmosphere.

The trick of course is to get these fans to, in effect, sign their lives away so the Football Club isn't liable. Can anyone be bothered developing this legislation? I doubt it.

[CAPT KAYOS]

The trick of course is to get these fans to, in effect, sign their lives away so the Football Club isn't liable. Can anyone be bothered developing this legislation? I doubt it.

Excellent Post Bobf and was going to be my next points.

They do it when you go in hospital/ parachuting for example and there are already clauses within the small print of all regulations about the do's and don'ts.

Christ, 'incidents' happen all the time yet we don't have legislation for these - next it will be that you have to sit down on an escalator FFS

As you say there are too many who can do something who won't, as long as they get their complimentary ticket and free beer and prawn sandwich.

[roversmum]

Hillsborough can no longer be used as an excuse becuase with technology available it should be easy to limit numbers in a standing area to a safe amount.

Apart from that and a couple of other accidents; I doubt that there have been many life-threatening incidents in stands over the years and with good maintenance and limited numbers there's no reason why there should be any.

However, it's not likely to happen. So what we need to do is come to terms with all-seater stadia and work out how we can still maximise vocal support.

As far as Rovers is concerned, they now need to consider some damage limitation and work out how they can show some loyalty to their own fans and make the visitors sit down too.

We have a game against Liverpool coming up so the whole of the Darwen End will be standing - how safe is that, jobsworths? and will get the usual rubbish from the media about Rovers not singing. Pah!

[T4E]

Bloke behind you slips. pushes you forward, simple really. I know it's hypothetical but isn't that what Health and Safety is all about?

Bloke next to you claps too wide apart and pokes your eye out. Same amount of risk. And of the incidents you later mention. How many of those happened in sections with seats?

How many people have died at football matches due to people poking their eye out when clapping? And how many have died in crushes caused by standing supporters? The risk is not the same in any way whatsoever.

[Tony Diamond Inc]

How many people have died after being crushed by people standing in a seated area?

To my mind a simple solution would be remove the seats from the Blackburn end and replace them with anti crush barriers on each row - unless of course there's a sideways surge!

[T4E]

How many people have died after being crushed by people standing in a seated area?

None to my knowledge - you could easily argue that the reason for that is because standing in seating areas isnt allowed. If it were allowed you may find there are more accidents.

[American]

How many people have died after being crushed by people standing in a seated area?

None to my knowledge - you could easily argue that the reason for that is because standing in seating areas isnt allowed. If it were allowed you may find there are more accidents.

Happens in the states all the time, at sporting events and concerts. The only time incidents have happened is because there were no seats, it was "festival" style standing (essentially the same as terrace). If there are no seats to stop you from moving forward, it's a lot easier to crush someone. How many people have died from the scenerio Paul originally brought up, being pushed into the seat in front of you? The same number that have died from being hit in the eye by the guy next to them clapping.

[LeChuck]

Happens in the states all the time, at sporting events and concerts. The only time incidents have happened is because there were no seats, it was "festival" style standing (essentially the same as terrace). If there are no seats to stop you from moving forward, it's a lot easier to crush someone.

Then you put metal bars up every so often to stop this happening...it's bloody easy.

I'm not of the opinion that one disaster out of goodness knows how many matches should still be affecting our game. That might upset some people but if we re-acted like this with every incident that happened then there'd be nothing left in this world, we'd have no cars, no trains, no planes...

There were lessons to be learned from the incident, better regulations of ticketing, better policing and stewarding, support bars to prevent crowd surging...but to abolish the whole thing entirely has took away something from the game I feel.

[Moppy]

Signed up at the site. Everyone makes a point about the health and safty issues. Could this not be solved simply by people in the area signing a disclamier. I am always astounded at the sue culture of the UK, next thing we know people will be bringing cases against McDonalds for making them fat just like in the states. I was reading a book by David Brown recently,"Deception Point", at one point the main character is being chased in a Cathedral in Seville by an assasin. Brown makes the point that a number of tourists have died on the stair case up to the Cupla and says that unlike in States, the Spanish take the view that if you fall down some stairs that have a simple warning on saying its step and be careful then its your own damn fault. Made me chuckle some what. If people of an adult age choose to take a risk, then it is {or should be} their responsibility. So long as this does not effect others who do not want to take this risk then why try and take that choice away.

[blackburnbrfc]

I've signed up too, get a grip you people on here, what would you have been interested in when fottball was mainly terracing? Fantasy football and Euro 96 has a lot to answer for...

[Billinge End Blue]

FAO Glenn or other Fans Forum representatives (this thread seems as good as any to raise it).

Last April you posted this on a 'Singing Section' thread (regarding canvassing the club's view on supporter choice at Ewood Park, not your lack of bar/messageboard presence :

<<I believe the infamous Kawazki cloak of invisibilty I always seem to be wearing when stood at a bar is now hiding my posts too (either that or people aren't reading them).

WE HAVE SPOKEN TO THE CLUB ABOUT THIS ALREADY AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO!

It will no doubt also be spoken about again at the next fans forum too, thing are in motion already, opinions are being canvased, notes being taken.>>

Nothing was really done for the start of the current season but is there any update or progress to report yet?

Somehow singing Rovers fans have got to be able to cluster together (and it should be on the BBE). Apparently, even our friendly neighbours are going down this path now...

[ABBEY]

why not sit with us??

I AINT BEING TOLD WHERE TO SIT JUST TO SING?

[ABBEY]

Happens in the states all the time, at sporting events and concerts. The only time incidents have happened is because there were no seats, it was "festival" style standing (essentially the same as terrace). If there are no seats to stop you from moving forward, it's a lot easier to crush someone.

Then you put metal bars up every so often to stop this happening...it's bloody easy.

I'm not of the opinion that one disaster out of goodness knows how many matches should still be affecting our game. That might upset some people but if we re-acted like this with every incident that happened then there'd be nothing left in this world, we'd have no cars, no trains, no planes...

There were lessons to be learned from the incident, better regulations of ticketing, better policing and stewarding, support bars to prevent crowd surging...but to abolish the whole thing entirely has took away something from the game I feel.

GOD BLESS THE MILE HIGH STADIUM......................................

IN~~@O SUX

[colin]

Pish.

You guys who advocate the standing areas are being very selective about the Lord Taylor Report about the Hillsborough Disaster.

It wasn't just about standing, it was about the whole ethos of how supporters were treated. Herded into pens, fenced in, the bloke behind you urinated on you because he was either (a) drunk or ( couldn't be bothered to go to the bogs because there was only three urinals for 10,000 fans.

If the fat bloke behind you decided to surge forward you were crushed against a barrier. If the fat bloke in front of you happened to be six foot tall you payed your money to see sod all.

Urine dribbled down the terraces, you'd have to be a serial child-abuser to take anyone under sixteen to see a game.

The police and stewards treated us like the scum of the earth, to be herded in and out of the stadia, it's a surprise that they didn't use electrified cattle prods.

The standing went out of the window with all that and I, for one, am grateful.

Edited October 14, 2004 by colin

[Alan75]

Colin, I applaude you.

Very well argued you get my vote.

People remember the good things and forget the bad.

[roversmum]

Colin, I applaude you.

Very well argued you get my vote.

People remember the good things and forget the bad.

Seconded. Too much negative thinking. Look at the positive side and work out how to make the best of what we have (which by any way of thinking isn't bad).

[Billinge End Blue]

Colin/Alan

No one is going to force anyone into an enclosure pen again...there will still be seats in stands!

Even if you don't personally want to be in a packed terrace, I'll bet you can appreciate the atmosphere/noise they used to generate?

It's all to do with supporter choice and the current 'one size fits all' mentality has got to change or we will continue to attract fewer young vocal fans to Ewood Park.

[roversmum]

I was going to say 'young, vocal fans' won't be used to standing at Premiership matches anyway but of course that isn't strictly true except at Rovers..............

[MCMC1875]

Colin/Alan

No one is going to force anyone into an enclosure pen again...there will still be seats in stands!

Even if you don't personally want to be in a packed terrace, I'll bet you can appreciate the atmosphere/noise they used to generate?

It's all to do with supporter choice and the current 'one size fits all' mentality has got to change or we will continue to attract fewer young vocal fans to Ewood Park.

Less of the young!

[Tony Diamond Inc]

Colin! For such a reasoned, intelligent Guardian reading debator, how can you be so blinkered.

We are arguing for the choice of weather to stand or sit. We don't want to be herded into the seated or terraced areas.

We just want a choice of buying a ticket that either says standing area or seated area, nothing too complicated there.

Finally to all the safety nanny's out there, I'll say again. Standing is no more dangerous than sitting if there are suitable controls in place i.e. limited tickets, anti surge barriers (on every row!) etc.

Stand up if you want to ... er ... stand!

[blue phil]

Apart from the decent reasons Colin highlighted , it'll never happen precisely because we live in a nanny state , particularly with this control freak Gov't we have at present . How the hell will our wonderful stewards for example, who seem particularly fascistic about enforcing all petty rules , get to and eject people who smoke or swear or wear burberry etc ... This is a risk free country and this Gov't will never allow its subjects to take risks . Expect more rules and regulations , not less !