Stewarding and the club/fan relationship

[whittle blue]

I wish I'd been ejected.

[Florida Rover]

Would it be too sweeping of a generalisation that the Club really truly DO NOT CARE one whit about what any of their fans think on an issue as they have their minds made up (i.e Fans Forum is just 'lip service') and as such any protestations about the issue on Saturday,standing in general,or anything for that matter will only be met with a "thanks for your opinion we value it and we'll look into it blah blah blah"?If so,very frustrating and no obvious answer.

Florida Rover

[Glenn]

I find it intresting that lots of people who have never attended a FF meeting think they are just "lip service" to the fans.

Now, one thing I don't like (but understand why) about the FF is most of what gets said is off the record and yes, I do believe the club both welcome and take on board our input. If I didn't I sure as hell wouldn't rush from work in Bradford all the way back to Blackburn to nice cup of coffe, a biscuit and a chat every other month.

It would be much easier to answer the arguments if I could use actual cases from the FF to illustrate my arguments, but I can't.

[Florida Rover]

It would be much easier to answer the arguments if I could use actual cases from the FF to illustrate my arguments, but I can't.

Glenn

You are such a tease .

Look I understand the need for having confidences but do you see things that frustrate you in your support of this terrific,historic wonderful club?You know more than us average blokes because of your position and "insider knowledge".I think alot of the stick has to do with our performance on the pitch and if we were winning and say 6th in the table now no one would be focusing on all this other stuff.I believe the frustration level has reached a point that the typical supporter is looking at all the "other stuff" going on around the club,that's all.

Thanks for all you do and your time and energy you expend on this site and MB.I enjoy it every day as I'm sure the overseas fans do.

Florida Rover

[roversWASmylife]

So out of a stand that has around 8,000 seats there was 100 fans stood up.

Yet directly across from the Blackburn end, you have around 3000 – 4000 standing fans. Who therefore should the stewards and police take action against? 100 fans that pay to the club week in week out or 4000 fans that they see once a year?

It really is a case of “You only sh!t on your own fans”

Once the police and head steward got involved, it just provoked more people to stand. Therefore causing a lot of anger. This I will tell you will only provoke fans to do it more. Wait till the next ewood game. The next game will be against Liverpool, fans will also of had the afternoon in the pubs and therefore be fuelled even more by dutch courage. If the police and stewards then get involved, then I wouldn’t like to think what will happen.

The police have to act upon the travelling fans 1st. With the next away supporters being Liverpool, just how many of these can you see sitting down?

What happen on Saturday will now act as a backlash and will provoke even more rovers fans.

Exactly my thoughts.

What I saw of on Saturday was several Boro fans in the boxes behind us giving us certain gestures, whilst everyone could see it, nothing was done about it, as I know of.

Like Hughsey said it’s only a minority that want to get behind their team that we love.

It’s not fair at all, that we get told every week to sit down yet the thousands of away fans in the Darwen End stand continuously throughout the game.

The Liverpool game will be interesting. Liverpool fans will stand, yet I bet none of them do sit down, even if they are told to do so.

But, I will put money on it that a Rovers fan will face ejection from the ground.

The only way for this to stop, is if people protest in some way about it, but go in a sensible way about it

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

I am led to believe that John Williams does read this mb from time to time.

There are now 6 page's to this thread of Rovers fan's who have grave concern's about the events of Saturday gone and are clearly worried that these problem's with heavy handed stewarding and policeing could badly escalate in the very near future.

All I will further say on this matter is that if no reply is forthwith,if you act like those oh so wise monkey's with your ear's,mouth's and eye's covered and simply refuse to listen to the supporter's who remain the REAL lifeblood of this famous old club then those people to whom it concerns at Ewood should not be in the positions they hold.

DONT TREAT THE FANS WITH CONTEMPT.

[No Nay Never]

Think it's you lot who should be banned !!

[BRFC4EVA]

'Stand up for the Blackburn end'

[colin]

Just a few observations:

(1) The Boro fans in the boxes at the Blackburn End. Someone has probably paid Rovers a lot of money to hire that box. The thought of having a steward pull down a blind or curtain to stop them or any other away fans at Ewood seeing the match in has probably not crossed anyone's mind. Perhaps this possibility could be in the contract and brought to the attention of the hirer and the occupants.

(2) As mentioned before, hiring out boxes to away fans in the Blackburn End is a stupid idea.

(3) The mass standing-up of fans is an insurmountable problem for any steward at any ground. What's the answer when faced with 3000+ fans all standing. Trafford Borough Council is having a hard time with The Red Scum standers, they have a pretty long-standing (sorry) and difficult problem to solve. It'll be a brave person who closes down a stand or turns on the water cannon.

(4) Perhaps those in front of the boxes in the Blackburn End can organise an arse-showing competition or a willy waggling session for the delictation of the visitors the next time they misbehave. A couple of rolls of gaffa tape over the windows would be fine too. Nothing too damaging.

[thenodrog]

One of them apparantly threw his season ticket at the stewards as he was being led away.

Crikey! That must have well hurt!

Come to think of it though, I reckon its almost impossible to chuck one of these new st thingy's out of your own piggin shadow.

[Alan75]

Just a few observations:

(1) The Boro fans in the boxes at the Blackburn End. Someone has probably paid Rovers a lot of money to hire that box. The thought of having a steward pull down a blind or curtain to stop them or any other away fans at Ewood seeing the match in has probably not crossed anyone's mind. Perhaps this possibility could be in the contract and brought to the attention of the hirer and the occupants.

Day job hat on.

There is a simple answer to the problem. Providing Rovers are prepared to spend some money.

By applying a Reflective Film to one side of the glass the private box spectators can see the game, but the fans on the terraces cant see in.

You can obtain privacy from window film in one of two ways;

1) By applying a Reflective Film to one side of the glass you can view a well lit area from a darker area, but they cannot see you.

It works by reflecting light to give a mirrored appearance. This film has been used on reality TV shows such as Big Brother and The Salon to ensure that the cameras can see the contestants without them being aware that they are there. Also used by Police in observation rooms during identity parades to protect witnesses.

2) By applying a Frosted Film to one side of the glass, vision is totally obscured in both directions whilst natural light passes through.

Personally I'd install the second option

[Hughesy]

The only way for this to stop, is if people protest in some way about it, but go in a sensible way about it

Maybe the entire Blackburn End should stand for 90 minutes and just sing, Chuck us all out, chuck us all out!

[trueblue]

I have mentioned this on the other thread (can't find it now), so apologies to those who have seen this before..

When we played ManUre, I asked a policeman in the Jack Walker stand what would happen if we stood up for the game, he said "you will be ejected"

I asked him why weren't the scum fans being ejected/told to sit down..

His reply was "there's too many of them"

A cop out from a copper !

I wonder if LDRover will take the opportunity of mentioning Saturday's stewarding display in his column tonight ?

[Guest Smithy81]

Ever been attacked by a steward for not sitting down? WELL I HAVE!

Against Bolton last season in the Darwen End one of my close friends was attacked and thrown down one of the exits. Whilst at the bottom of the stairs at least 3 stewards man handled him in a way which not even animals are.

When I then questioned the tactics to a police officer I was to hurled about and ARRESTED!

Why did all this accour, STANDING UP!

Bolton fans that day got away with murder that day while I festered in a cell for STANDING UP!

What did CCTV pictures show, NOTHING according to Mr Newshaw!

Yet still I signed my life away to say I was a football hooligan and I would never misbehave on the ground again or I would receive a life ban!

There were several complaints that day to Mr Newsham about the heavy handed tactics of both the stewards and the police but yet still nothing is done!

THIS IS A SERIOUS MATTER AND NEEDS ADDRESSING NOW!

[Alan75]

The only way for this to stop, is if people protest in some way about it, but go in a sensible way about it

Maybe the entire Blackburn End should stand for 90 minutes and just sing, Chuck us all out, chuck us all out!

Whilst I understand where your coming from, protests of this nature should be the last resort.

In the first instance those who feel agrieved should make peacefull protest by writting to the club, in particular John Williams.

Spending the afternoon chanting inviting the authorities to chuck you out would be better spent supporting the team. Everyone standing up chanting for the Rovers, will have a double effect.

A. The team might play better.

B. Fans are standing up for a specific reason, apart from causing civil disobedience.

[CAPT KAYOS]

I find it intresting that lots of people who have never attended a FF meeting think they are just "lip service" to the fans.

It would be much easier to answer the arguments if I could use actual cases from the FF to illustrate my arguments, but I can't.

Glenn you know me and I think I have discussed this with you previously , but this is what irks alot of fans as nothing is ever heard of what is achieved at/from these meetings.

Why not - why is it all top secret yet is supposed to be a FANS forum - you know one of those things with the fans for the fans.

Even you have had a dig at the club re the club charter so something is either as people saying are saying just falling on 'deaf ears' and the club just doesn't give a hoot about the fans or as usual the club is so slow at dealing with things and useless at letting the fans know about issues important to them.

Personally I don't give a damn about what the fans do in the boxes , contributes to the atmosphere in a way IMO , but what I object to is the way our inept stewards deal with situations (Police tend to be ok) and the Club/fan relationship at the moment and our dwindling numbers.

An issue maybe for the next top secret meeting (synchronise those watches) is the situation of the dwindling numbers ( if it hasn't been discussed already) and the way football is going against the vocal partisan fan - which is affecting our club more than most so should be taken very very seriously.

[Dan Furness]

Just a few observations:

(1) The Boro fans in the boxes at the Blackburn End. Someone has probably paid Rovers a lot of money to hire that box. The thought of having a steward pull down a blind or curtain to stop them or any other away fans at Ewood seeing the match in has probably not crossed anyone's mind. Perhaps this possibility could be in the contract and brought to the attention of the hirer and the occupants.

(2) As mentioned before, hiring out boxes to away fans in the Blackburn End is a stupid idea.

(3) The mass standing-up of fans is an insurmountable problem for any steward at any ground. What's the answer when faced with 3000+ fans all standing. Trafford Borough Council is having a hard time with The Red Scum standers, they have a pretty long-standing (sorry) and difficult problem to solve. It'll be a brave person who closes down a stand or turns on the water cannon.

(4) Perhaps those in front of the boxes in the Blackburn End can organise an arse-showing competition or a willy waggling session for the delictation of the visitors the next time they misbehave. A couple of rolls of gaffa tape over the windows would be fine too. Nothing too damaging.

They dont let the boxes out to away fans, I used to sit in the Fraser Eagle box. Sometimes companies invite individuals, mainly business purposes

[Hughesy]

The boxes are leased by which ever company wants one. They pay a hell of a lot of money for a season too.

The company I work for has a box at ewood. They invite customers/ clients to games from all over the country. If for instance we are playing arsenal at ewood you will find that they invite a few customers from north London and also the bosses from where I work will go along with them. Hence why you find that away fans are in boxes.

Basically when they are pumping £15k a season in each we cannot really complain about that. I do however agree that a tinted window would be a better option for the fans on the outside.

The 1 and only problem at ewood that is of big concern is the handling by the stewards. They have to adapt an equal right policy. If they decide they are going to start ejecting people from the Blackburn end, then they must also do the same in any other stand that fans are standing.

Another thing that a lot of other fans say about ewood is that they limit the atmosphere because you are not allowed big flags that drape over stands or sponsor boards. Everywhere else allows it.

[mattyboy6000]

looking for an answer..

East lancs/Ribble Valley old f**ts who do nowt for our Club. 

in brief what I am saying is the Board stinks.

there it is..

[Dan Furness]

The boxes are leased by which ever company wants one. They pay a hell of a lot of money for a season too.

The company I work for has a box at ewood. They invite customers/ clients to games from all over the country. If for instance we are playing arsenal at ewood you will find that they invite a few customers from north London and also the bosses from where I work will go along with them. Hence why you find that away fans are in boxes.

Basically when they are pumping £15k a season in each we cannot really complain about that. I do however agree that a tinted window would be a better option for the fans on the outside.

The 1 and only problem at ewood that is of big concern is the handling by the stewards. They have to adapt an equal right policy. If they decide they are going to start ejecting people from the Blackburn end, then they must also do the same in any other stand that fans are standing.

Another thing that a lot of other fans say about ewood is that they limit the atmosphere because you are not allowed big flags that drape over stands or sponsor boards. Everywhere else allows it.

£100 a head it works out at, I went in the box a few times.

10 in a box

[Hughesy]

Last time i heard it was 15k for a season

[stuwilky]

If you want the box for the full season, with sponsorship hoarding I beleive it is £26k +Vat.

http://www.rovers.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Cor...,,10303,00.html

As we dont sell all the boxes (we dont have many either - most of the space in the Darwen End and some in the Nuttall Street are suites, not boxes.) we offer them for sale by the match, it costs around £100 per head plus vat, depending on the opposition.

[SuperStella]

I was at a meeting with John Newsham last night regarding Saturday's events and the problem regarding persistent standing. Whilst I am not prepared to post every point of that meeting on this board, I would like to make fans aware of the following;

1.) Plenty of work is done behind the scenes to stop away fans standing up as well. Posters are put up - welcoming fans to Ewood and asking them politely to remain seated in the interests of safety. This was succesful against West Brom and even their fans thought it was a good idea. Letters are also sent with tickets distributed to away fans warning them they risk being ejected if they stand persistently. Aston Villa received these letters, however, and never included them when distributing tickets to their fans.

2.) Licensing Authority grants safety certificates on the measure that people sit down. Rules stipulate that if the stand is at more than 25% camber/gradient from the back to the front it is deemed dangerous to stay stood up. The camber/gradient in the stands at Ewood is 28% raising to 32%, dipping in the middle. Licensing authority will grant a safety certificate on condition fans do not persistently stand during the match

3.) If the problem persists drastic action will be taken such as problem areas having ticket allocations slashed/reduced. This has already happened at Notts Forest where they have reduced tickets given to away fans from 3,500 to 2,000.

4.) A piece about exactly what happened on Saturday etc will appear in tonight's Telegraph as Rovers have released a statement about it

5.) ) It was pointed out that several premiership clubs e.g. Arsenal, Southampton have stands behind the goal where nodody sits down. They said that sooner, rather than later, these clubs will have their ticket allocation in these stands reduced. It remains to be seen.

Edited October 19, 2004 by SuperStella

[Glenn]

I find it intresting that lots of people who have never attended a FF meeting think they are just "lip service" to the fans.

It would be much easier to answer the arguments if I could use actual cases from the FF to illustrate my arguments, but I can't.

Glenn you know me and I think I have discussed this with you previously , but this is what irks alot of fans as nothing is ever heard of what is achieved at/from these meetings.

Why not - why is it all top secret yet is supposed to be a FANS forum - you know one of those things with the fans for the fans.

Even you have had a dig at the club re the club charter so something is either as people saying are saying just falling on 'deaf ears' and the club just doesn't give a hoot about the fans or as usual the club is so slow at dealing with things and useless at letting the fans know about issues important to them.

Personally I don't give a damn about what the fans do in the boxes , contributes to the atmosphere in a way IMO , but what I object to is the way our inept stewards deal with situations (Police tend to be ok) and the Club/fan relationship at the moment and our dwindling numbers.

An issue maybe for the next top secret meeting (synchronise those watches) is the situation of the dwindling numbers ( if it hasn't been discussed already) and the way football is going against the vocal partisan fan - which is affecting our club more than most so should be taken very very seriously.

I've been on record several times disagreeing with the secrecy of the FF, however I agreed to maintain it, so I will until told otherwise. But I do feel it works against the FF some times.

However I also feel, that whilst some parts of it may not be conducted the way I'd prefer, that on the whole it is a worthwhile exercise for both the fans and the club.

[Dan Furness]

I was at a meeting with John Newsham last night regarding Saturday's events and the problem regarding persistent standing. Whilst I am not prepared to post every point of that meeting on this board, I would like to make fans aware of the following;

1.) Plenty of work is done behind the scenes to stop away fans standing up as well. Posters are put up - welcoming fans to Ewood and asking them politely to remain seated in the interests of safety. This was succesful against West Brom and even their fans thought it was a good idea. Letters are also sent with tickets distributed to away fans warning them they risk being ejected if they stand persistently. Aston Villa received these letters, however, and never included them when distributing tickets to their fans.

2.) Licensing Authority grants safety certificates on the measure that people sit down. Rules stipulate that if the stand is at more than 25% camber/gradient from the back to the front it is deemed dangerous to stay stood up. The camber/gradient in the stands at Ewood is 28% raising to 32%, dipping in the middle. Licensing authority will grant a safety certificate on condition fans do not persistently stand during the match

3.) If the problem persists drastic action will be taken such as problem areas having ticket allocations slashed/reduced. This has already happened at Notts Forest where they have reduced tickets given to away fans from 3,500 to 2,000.

4.) A piece about exactly what happened on Saturday etc will appear in tonight's Telegraph as Rovers have released a statement about it

5.) ) It was pointed out that several premiership clubs e.g. Arsenal, Southampton have stands behind the goal where nodody sits down. They said that sooner, rather than later, these clubs will have their ticket allocation in these stands reduced. It remains to be seen.

1). Posters?

can really see 8,000 mancs geordies scousers listening to that, whats worst they can do? send 4,000 coppers in? fat chance

2). Reduce Allocation?

with how short we are on fans at the minute, this again would be a no-go