Stewarding and the club/fan relationship

[Hasta]

What worries me is that the standing issue is being blown out of all proportion in the context of the two arrests in the Blackburn End, which - according to the statement from Tom Finn and the eyewitness account on this thread from Kinx - had nothing to do with standing.

How many months ago was it when Keith Lard was first introduced as a sort of cult (yes cult) figure on this board. I may be wrong as i sit too far to the left of the area to know exactly what is going on but it's been clear that tension has been brewing for a few games now in that area due to the stewarding with regards to standing (and their attidute in general).

Had this tension not existed and the fan / steward relationship been fine then the reaction to the taunting Boro fans taunting would not have been as major as it was last Saturday and the 2 fans would probably have never been arrested.

Brownie - Every time there's a topic I'm not arsed about (such as Scotland squads) I don't go on it and start telling people. I just don't read it anymore. Besiedes this issue has brought about 2 statements from the club in 2 days and a double page LET spread.

Edited October 20, 2004 by Hasta

[Alan75]

Spending the afternoon chanting inviting the authorities to chuck you out would be better spent supporting the team. Everyone standing up chanting for the Rovers, will have a double effect.

A. The team might play better.

B. Fans are standing up for a specific reason, apart from causing civil disobedience.

I'm with you Brownie, the most important factor at the moment is to get behind the team, as I said earlier in this topic.

[AlanK]

And the thought of embarrassing crowd trouble in our own end in front of millions of viewers doesn`t concern you!?!

[Billinge End Blue]

Of course this is a diversion from the turgid fayre that has been served up on the pitch at Ewood Park over recent months! There is nothing new in fans looking for an outlet to vent their frustration in times like these and this issue is just that.

The fact that some embrace it and some don't doesn't make it any less valid.

This is fine for messageboard debate but it is a pity when it becomes a distraction from the important business of fans supporting the team during matches.

Which brings it cyclically back to how that is best achieved and maintained, particularly during lean times, with fan base falling away and the ever diminishing sense of occasion and lack of atmosphere/vocal support.

All those who wish for things to go on pretty much as they are as far as the anodyne Ewood matchday experience is concerned will I'm sure be satisfied that the club are doing their very best to maintain the status quo.

Feel free to start a new thread discussing eg the nuances of Barry Ferguson's midfield role and whether he is a worthwhile default man-of-the-match!

[Glenn]

Your suggestion that away clubs should supply their own stewards to supervise their fans is an excellent one and may be the answer to the problem.

I don't know about about other teams at Ewood (as not surprisingly I don't sit in the Darwen End) but away from home Rovers *do* take their own stewards.

I believe this is why away from home Rovers pretty well behave as directed (i.e. a number may stand at the back, out of the way, unless specifcally told not to, at which point they'll sit without argument) because most regular away travelers know the stewards and respect them. A number of times away from home I've seen "over excited" Rovers fans sorted out with a quick 5 min chat from Rihaz (sp?) without any need for anyone to be dragged to the concourse, threatend with ejection or intervention from the police.

Do anyone know if other teams do the same at Ewood ?

[stuwilky]

I do feel passionately about the club languishing towards the bottom of the league. I also feel passionately about this issue. Not because I prefer to stand personally (and bought a seat that does not interfere with anyone else's vision if I choose to do so).

This issue concerns me because I can see people start to get more and more disillutioned with OUR football club. Less people buying season tickets and matchday tickets = less cash for our club to spend on staying in this division.

[roversmum]

I heard a rumour that Rihaz had been sacked. Anyone know?

stuwilky is right, the concern over this issue doesn't mean that people don't care about the position of the club in the league.

It's the disillusionment. You pay your money and hope to see a good match and hopefully your team win. You don't need unnecessary harrassment from those who are supposed to be acting in the interests of the club. Respect goes both ways, the supporter has paid for it, the club's employees have to earn it.

[waggy]

quite a few teams bring there own stewards,utd and arsenal definatley have this season,as my dad who has to buy a parking space on the darwen end car park due to ill health,has had his parking space nicked on these said games by visiting stewards.

i think he pays about £150 a season to park close by,poor do really

[CAPT KAYOS]

Beat me to it StuWilky

Tris/John/Brownie - This is not just as a result of Saturday and has been bubbling for a while and not just at our club.

The situation re standing is causing problems and driving fans away (especially at our club) and I find this relevant to the clubs overall sitaution re finances and fans etc...

Yes what is happening one the pitch is not helping and people are venting their anger in other directions, and in all respect our club and the game against Liverpool could be the catalyst for a major incident (due to the ko time/ bad feelings/ scrap performances /last seasons fixture**etc) that is surely going to happen at a football ground soon.

As I have said to Den from what I saw on Saturday, it all really started with the actions and attitude of the stewards, which as mentioned previously has been going on for a while and not just this season.

As Stuwilky says fans are becoming very disillusioned with Football and issues like these do not help - especially when you do not have a CHOICE to stand and its all interlinked IMO.

I had similar ideas re contacting the club due to the goings on in my personal life recently have been unable to generate any time to the cause and StuWilky has come up on the rails and got the ball rolling.

I also wish the vocal atmosphere generated on Saturday could be raised to support the players on the pitch rather than the goings on off it, but most if not all came from those standing up and not the moaners sitting down. Therefore if we could stand to generate this type of Atmosphere towards the players on the pitch we might start to see things turn but then we have a catch 22 - do we stand and risk getting arrested or sit down and stay stum, bored to death and thinking about why do I bother.

I for one do not want the morgue-like atmosphere's we have at football grounds now - I want to enjoy it and rant and rave as and when and not resort to arguing with somebody if they CHOOSE to sit because I am interfering with their line of view or comfort.

On a serious nature - if the debacle of anti standing continues I will be making a major decision on whether I will be re-newing my Season ticket - in fact on whether I want to watch football in the morgues anymore (like OT where it is called the 'Theatre of (wet) Dreams' because everbody is asleep).

Luckily at the moment I stand (sit) in an area where the majority also like to stand.

Edited October 21, 2004 by CAPT KAYOS

[jim mk2]

I want to enjoy it and rant and rave as and when and not resort to arguing with somebody if they CHOOSE to sit because I am interfering with their line of view or comfort.

Alternatively, I want to enjoy it and rant and rave as and when and not resort to arguing with somebody if they are standing up and interfering with my line of view.

It is selfish attitudes such as yours that are causing the problems.

I pay what I consider alot of money to sit down and watch a football match and I do not want someone in front of me blocking my vision.

The rules are that you must sit down. If you don't like it, stay at home.

[Brownie]

I want to enjoy it and rant and rave as and when and not resort to arguing with somebody if they CHOOSE to sit because I am interfering with their line of view or comfort.

Alternatively, I want to enjoy it and rant and rave as and when and not resort to arguing with somebody if they are standing up and interfering with my line of view.

It is selfish attitudes such as yours that are causing the problems.

I pay what I consider alot of money to sit down and watch a football match and I do not want someone in front of me blocking my vision.

The rules are that you must sit down. If you don't like it, stay at home.

My Dad is 74 and has been forced to change his seat this season due to the bloke in front of him standing up every time Rovers ventured across the halfway line.

He had to watch nearly all the goals of last season on the big screen.

He now sits with people in the JW stand who are virtually all older than him !

(What am I doing !!?? I'm getting dragged into the discussion !)

Not posting anything else on this subject !

[CAPT KAYOS]

I want to enjoy it and rant and rave as and when and not resort to arguing with somebody if they CHOOSE to sit because I am interfering with their line of view or comfort.

Alternatively, I want to enjoy it and rant and rave as and when and not resort to arguing with somebody if they are standing up and interfering with my line of view.

It is selfish attitudes such as yours that are causing the problems.

I pay what I consider alot of money to sit down and watch a football match and I do not want someone in front of me blocking my vision.

The rules are that you must sit down. If you don't like it, stay at home.

What you reading ffs numbnuts??

and not resort to arguing with somebody if they CHOOSE to sit because I am interfering with their line of view or comfort.

As I have said I do not want to end up arguing with somebody over me standing. I am not ignorant to the fact that some people want to sit and If requested a I will sit down without issue - normally especially at away games I even ask before I sit down if anybody has any objection to me standing.

Now in my world, this is very respectful and undertstanding and is normally accepted - but what pisses me of is the likes of people with this sort of comment that give rise to arguments occuring - so its it any wonder some people act the way they do Jim?

Yet again it is your choice to sit, which the likes of me have to respect- yet we do not have the choice to stand which I find prejudice against those that want to.

I pay alot of money for my tickets and would like the choice to stand if I want to hence my feelings on this issue.

Throwing it back at you - pay your money to SKY and SIT at home in your cosy armchair.

What people are asking for is choice without having to resort to petty arguments - has this embedded into your greying matter yet??

BTW Jim- will be interesting to see you rave in your seat with about 1ft leg space when we next score (?**)

Football - don't you just love it?

Edited October 21, 2004 by CAPT KAYOS

[cletus]

jim mk2 Posted on Oct 21 2004, 11:07 

  QUOTE (CAPT KAYOS @ Oct 21 2004, 10:53 )

I want to enjoy it and rant and rave as and when and not resort to arguing with somebody if they CHOOSE to sit because I am interfering with their line of view or comfort.

Alternatively, I want to enjoy it and rant and rave as and when and not resort to arguing with somebody if they are standing up and interfering with my line of view.

It is selfish attitudes such as yours that are causing the problems.

I pay what I consider alot of money to sit down and watch a football match and I do not want someone in front of me blocking my vision.

The rules are that you must sit down. If you don't like it, stay at home.

Jim......again i`m sorry but i cannot agree with you. BRFC do not have a famous 'kop' or 'Stretford end'....but we have our own Blackburn End this is the traditional end for the hardcore roverites who sing, chant, bounce up & down & generally get the atnosphere going in the ground.

Remember "you are my sunshine"??"the east side!...the west side!"??

It has always been a bit noisy, a bit rowdy, a bit wey!!, a bit wo!!

If you buy a ticket in the Blackburn End, you should expect a bit of standing & the odd rude word.

Have you not thought you may be sitting in the wrong part of the ground?

[bob fleming]

(Beat me to it cletus....)

Then again if you want to stand - go on the Blackburn End. If you want to sit, go elsewhere on the ground - there's plenty of choice. That's the way I see it. Similarly if you want to sing and create some sort of atmosphere go to the BBE lower. This is how the club should be advertising that end of the ground.

However, as things stand this won't make any difference whatsoever.

As Tom Finn stated "The policy of insisting that spectators remain seated is one that is prescribed by The 1989 Football Spectators Act. We all accept that supporters will stand at times of high drama and for goalmouth incidents but persistent standing is unacceptable. This is reinforced within our Safety Certificate issued and monitored by our local authority."

So even if the club wanted to let people stand - they can't. It's simply not up to them.

Jim - you're quite correct - these are the rules. It's the way that they've been enforced that has lead to problems. (I reckon you'd make a great steward by the way - tact, diplomacy, understanding).

Superstella reported after his meeting with the club "Rules stipulate that if the stand is at more than 25% camber/gradient from the back to the front it is deemed dangerous to stay stood up. The camber/gradient in the stands at Ewood is 28% raising to 32%, dipping in the middle. Licensing authority will grant a safety certificate on condition fans do not persistently stand during the match" - So what are they saying? If the stand has a gradient of less than 25% you can stand? If that's the case then surely we have a solution moving forward. A load of concrete and The Riverside.

Just a thought. At least people would then be able to stand in a seated area. It's a long term possible solution.

[trueblue]

Ermm Kayos... you state

Yet again it is your choice to sit, which the likes of me have to respect- yet we do not have the choice to stand which I find prejudice against those that want to.

There is no choice when it comes to sitting - the rules state you must sit ! So it is NOT Jims choice to sit that is the issue.. more YOUR choice to break the rules and stand !

[SouthAussieRover]

Ermm Kayos... you state

Yet again it is your choice to sit, which the likes of me have to respect- yet we do not have the choice to stand which I find prejudice against those that want to.

There is no choice when it comes to sitting - the rules state you must sit ! So it is NOT Jims choice to sit that is the issue.. more YOUR choice to break the rules and stand !

Agreed.

If you want to stand go to Highercroft hill.

[T4E]

I've tried that. Bloody trees on the row in front wont sit down.

[Paul]

The issue between club and fans is two-fold;

1. Home fans would like the stewards/police to take a more respectful approach to enforcing the rules

2. Home fans would like the rules equally enforced with away support.

In any disagreement where you have two fairly entrenched views something has to give. In this instance the club can't back down as to do so would be to defy the Licencing Authority. Fans agree they are not permitted to stand and so do not have a reasonable arguement for continuing to stand. This just leaves 1 & 2 above.

Seems to me the obvious move is for the home fans to remain seated thus removing the heat from the situation. By doing so the pressure is then 100% back on the club to resolve the away fans issue.

If, with the home support observing the rules, the club fail to address the away fans issue then those in the BBE who are unhappy have a cast-iron case for arguing with the club on the matter.

[CAPT KAYOS]

There is no choice when it comes to sitting - the rules state you must sit ! So it is NOT Jims choice to sit that is the issue.. more YOUR choice to break the rules and stand !

Erm... TB yes there is - you either sit or don't buy a ticket otherwise you run the risk of being ejected for standing as there is no area for you to have the option to chose to go and stand in.

Yes it is my choice to break the rules, as no doubt it is about many others due to the nature of the game and the natural action of many who go to watch games.

Question for you - Do you just sit in your seat when we score?- If not then you are choosing to break the rules as well

[den]

LET

I assume these are from the letters page of the lancs evening telegraph.

[SouthAussieRover]

If standing areas are to be re-introduced should fences at the pitch edge and perimeters also be reintroduced?

[CAPT KAYOS]

If standing areas are to be re-introduced should fences at the pitch edge and perimeters also be reintroduced?

If that's what is needed then yes - but remember not every ground had fences and some grounds including ours still have perimeters.

[SouthAussieRover]

If standing areas are to be re-introduced should fences at the pitch edge and perimeters also be reintroduced?

If that's what is needed then yes - but remember not every ground had fences and some grounds including ours still have perimeters.

What if the fences were so high they impeded an escape in the event of a crush?

[FourLaneBlue]

If standing areas are to be re-introduced should fences at the pitch edge and perimeters also be reintroduced?

If that's what is needed then yes - but remember not every ground had fences and some grounds including ours still have perimeters.

What if the fences were so high they impeded an escape in the event of a crush?

If this is question time, here's mine...

Why on earth would the club put up fences that "were so high they impeded an escape in the event of a crush"?

In Germany there are a number of top flight grounds that have standing areas. They are deemed safe enough to allow fans into them so it can be done. These areas will be used in the World Cup. If Germany can do this why not here in England?

I'm not particularly in favour of having standing at games reintroduced but if it did happen it would not have to be like in the eighties on crumbling terraces.

[CAPT KAYOS]

If standing areas are to be re-introduced should fences at the pitch edge and perimeters also be reintroduced?

If that's what is needed then yes - but remember not every ground had fences and some grounds including ours still have perimeters.

What if the fences were so high they impeded an escape in the event of a crush?

That's why they had emergency gates - normally at each end and inthe middle areas - but why would they be made so high - and if all things considered they would not be as cramped as they used to be as some grounds now have larger capacity and there would more than likely be a 3-1 ratio in favour of the seats.

In addition I am positive that the advance in technology and attitutude towards the treatment of fans would go someway into solving this.

However, how does this make any difference to there being a crush in the seating areas and the seats impeding an escape in a supposed similar situation.