Stewarding and the club/fan relationship

[CAPT KAYOS]

Some worrying posts by supporters who seem to have lost the faith. Eighteen months ago, with Rovers pushing for a Uefa Cup place playing exciting attacking football, would they have said the same then ?

Hughes has a tough battle - to deliver the points necessary to ensure Premiership surival and at the same time entertain fans fed up with turgid performances by players who seemingly could not care less. Can he deliver ?

Think you'll find that similar sort of questions where being raised Jim - its just more people are questioning now because things are not improving- in fact they are getting worse.

What is happening on the pitch at Rovers has probably exacerbated the problem but even so is not just started - its just its now gathering momentum.

Regardless of our disagreement - my worry is that it will start to alienate all types of fans due them becoming dis-illusioned with the game (except maybe Arsenal /MU fans) ie - parents become dismayed and can't be bothered to take on their kids/teenagers being teenagers can't be bothered type of scenario etc/ all ticket rather than cash on door /Sky/cost? - the list is endless but all connected nonetheless.

[Blue blood]

Maybe it was just me but when we first got back into the premiership there seemed to be a real buzz about the place for the entire season. I think our fans had missed premiership football and realised how valuable such experience was. The atmosphere seemed so much better then even when struggling (like the loss to Derby at home).

For me the main problems these days are the fact you can't identify with the team any more and the dire football being produced. I can cope with loosing if we put in a good display, play some attractive football and give us one or two things to shout about. As for identifying with the team there's little home grown talent coming through, few characters left and those that are are past it. How many of the team have any history with the club? Only Short, Brad, Jansen and Flitty were with us when we got promoted, and of those only two are playing regularly. I know that football has a high player turn around but ours seems exceptionally high.

In such circumstances other things take on greater significance than before. Whilst fans may be willing to cope with poor stewarding etc when the team is successful and things are okay with the situation as it is fans need every encouragement to continue to go. Personally the atmosphere at some of the games last season was the highlight of a poor campaign - and if the atmosphere is taken away there's not much left.

Personally I think that our attendences aren't that appalling considering the team was ripped apart and even the wins last season were turgid affairs. Hughes has a very tough task on hand, not just to avoid relegation as we did last year but to win back the fans.

[stuwilky]

Excellent post AlanK I've started daydreaming already

StuWilky print this post and take it with you to the meeting - show them what it means to the man in the street

Football at the moment is just false and manufactured  - loved by many - believed by the naive yet argued about by those that care.

Just printed it before I read this.

Unfortunately it is the way a good few thousand fans feel.

Following on from preston blue's comments I am the same - we are really struggling to find babysitters for stuwilky 2 and stuwilky 3(because of the stupid kick off time), and I actually dont care.

Edited October 22, 2004 by stuwilky

[Scotty]

Good grief - there's an incredible amount of whining on this thread. Not a single person who's contributed would have bothered if the team was winning matches and entertaining us.

Let's get a few things straight:

1) You can't stand at football matches. End of story. And I don't mean when goals go in or at corners etc., you all know what I mean. Anyone who defies this rule deserves to be (and should be) thrown out. You all know the rules and when you bought your ticket you agreed to abide by them.

Now, I'm all for people who want to campaign for standing areas, and good luck to you, but until it happens then you can't stand. And you can't make the excuse about the away fans either. Two wrongs don't make a right and it's their club that will have to deal with the consequences.

2) The blokes who got chucked out last week appear to have been mouthing off to a policeman. If that's true then they deserved what they got.

3) The antagonism in the Blackburn End was apparently caused by a Boro fan in one of the boxes taunting the home fans with a piece of paper. Grow up FFS. Football fans taunt other football fans, it's a fact of life and you really need to get over yourselves.

4) The lack of atmosphere at Ewood is a result of a number of different things. First of all though let's make it clear - it's not just Ewood. Virtually every home ground in the Premiership has the same problems.

The cost of football has priced a lot of the working class, passionate fans out of the game. All seater stadia have encouraged more families to attend, and have also split up the hardcore singing element of supporters. Pre-match and half-time "entertainment" is also usually geared towards encouraging families. All of this leads to a dull atmosphere. Unfortunately though, from Rovers perspective, families mean more money and money is king in football these days.

But by far the biggest reason for the lack of atmosphere is that our team is sh!te, and has been for a while. Watching Blackburn Rovers is not entertaining at the moment.

In addition, the way the game is nowadays means that it's almost impossible for a team like Blackburn to win the league and compete with the big boys (assuming another Jack Walker doesn't come along - money again). This means that the fans don't have as much to look forward to as they used to and, as a result, don't look forward to games as much.

Add to that the fall in attendances (too costly, too much footy on TV etc.) and the atmosphere at Ewood is bound to decrease.

How can things be improved? It's hard to say. A lower pricing policy would encourage more fans and perhaps entice back some of the more passionate element, but would Rovers be left with enough money to compete?

A singing area seems a good idea but it would involve some radical re-distribution of season tickets during the summer. Personally, I'd move the family stand to the JW Lower and sell tickets in the whole of the Blackburn End with the proviso that the stand is a designated singing area and you're expected to make a noise.

Finally, we need the team to start winning. More people will then turn up and more of us will feel like singing. We won't get taunted by opposition fans, we won't take our frustrations out on stewards or policemen, and we won't whine as much on this messageboard.

[MCMC1875]

Some worrying posts by supporters who seem to have lost the faith. Eighteen months ago, with Rovers pushing for a Uefa Cup place playing exciting attacking football, would they have said the same then ?

Hughes has a tough battle - to deliver the points necessary to ensure Premiership surival and at the same time entertain fans fed up with turgid performances by players who seemingly could not care less. Can he deliver ?

Fickle fans always have short memories!

[jim mk2]

A singing area seems a good idea but it would involve some radical re-distribution of season tickets during the summer. Personally, I'd move the family stand to the JW Lower and sell tickets in the whole of the Blackburn End with the proviso that the stand is a designated singing area and you're expected to make a noise.

I have been saying for years that the ground needs to be reconfigured. Glad to see someone else agrees with me.

Ideally the corporate boxes should also be moved, preferably to a rebuilt Riverside, but shifting the family area to the JW and giving over the whole of the Blackburn End to the core support should not be too difficult.

It's a good, practical idea that deserves consideration by the club management.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Good grief - there's an incredible amount of whining on this thread. Not a single person who's contributed would have bothered if the team was winning matches and entertaining us.

And that's where your are wrong Scotty my Friend - this is not new and as I have said to Jim above is just gathering momentum due to more questioning things which the action on the field (or lack of) has not helped.

Can't disagree with the rest of your post though

[roversmum]

Good points, Jim, brilliant post, Scotty.

Jim, to reconfigure the ground is definitely the way to go. However, I would worry about relocating the family stand; at least the kids are contained up there, in the JWL you would probably get a lot of them running round screaming during the match - this happened in the Riverside at the U21s England match.

The idea needs to be seriously looked at though.

[cletus]

But for the first time ever I don't care, and why...because I do not feel the Club give a toss.

PrestonBlue i feel the same way.

Good grief - there's an incredible amount of whining on this thread.

Scotty that`s because some people on this thread can see the club they love changing beyond recognition. We are coming to be seen as [/b]customers not fans........but in this case, the customer is never right & is never listened to. We are just expected to turn up & put up.

Not anymore my fellow Roverites!

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

A singing area seems a good idea but it would involve some radical re-distribution of season tickets during the summer.  Personally, I'd move the family stand to the JW Lower and sell tickets in the whole of the Blackburn End with the proviso that the stand is a designated singing area and you're expected to make a noise.

Have said the same for ages...give the Blackburn End back to the hardcore supporter.

Excellent post Alan75, you sum up the feeling's of many as to why a trip to Ewood has lost its spark for an ever increasing number of fan's.

To compare the atmosphere of the now Ewood to that of the heady day's of Shearer etc is very painful.The buzz and expectancy before the game's back then was simply tremendous,you would hear the Blackburn end singing and chanting before the players even entered the field of play......now its a half hearted round of applause at best.

Edited October 22, 2004 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[Duff's Minder]

this all makes a lot of sense - went to my first Ewood match in a couple of seasons Vs ManYoo and was stunned at the lack of noise. Compared to the away games I'm normally at where we usually out-sing the home fans.

The prawn sandwich eating red scum were making more noise than a full Ewood Park - this can't be right!

[Paul]

My enthusiasm for the game as a whole not just Rovers is quickly declining.

Great post Alan. You and I have discussed this before and I share your feelings. I'm very, very tired of football and have been for a long while. I only care about Blackburn Rovers and that is hard work at the moment.

Why am I tired of football. Simple really

1. Over exposure, it's no longer special.

2. The exploits of the so called stars and professionals. I am sick to death of mediocre and average players being built up day in, day out. The true stars, like Henry, Shearer, Pires, are wonderfully absent from the media.

3. The exploits of, for example only, Ferdinand, Beckham, the Leeds pair etc. I'm sick to death of them, they're just bloody footballers. Nothing special.

4. The constant over-analysys. I don't care if the referee screwed up, the result is the same. I don't care if the goal is later proved to be offside - it was more fun to argue without any proof.

5. The mercenary players and their mealy-mouthed platitudes to the fans who pay their wages.

6. The extortionate money paid to those players

7. All the rubbish about "playing too much football"

8. Manchester United

I grew up watching Southern League football and that was more exciting than the Premier League. There was a buzz, some hope of winning but the PL has managed to kill that for all but the fans of three or four clubs.

The game has been milked for years by people who care little for it. As I posted a few weeks ago, when you sell your sould to the devil he eventaully comes knocking.

[den]

Oh, come on guys cheer up. If the club is in your heart, it wont take much of an upturn to bring the enthusiasm back.

I suspect a lot of this down-heartedness is a fall out from the backward thinking that became all too familiar under Souness.

[broadsword]

Not often at Ewood, but Paul's right on the button there for me.

How often do Sky have to show footy before people start switching off in droves?

I've stayed in for a few England matches recently - would never have done that a few years ago. Since I don't have Sky I didn't get to see it live, and what's more I didn't bother watching the highlights (were there any?)

You forgot to mention players retiring from international football to safeguard their income, and the antics of Sven.

[MCMC1875]

If people say all Prem clubs/professional football is suffering, they are being complacent.

I say this because:

1. Charlton live on Sky managed a full house last Sunday.

2. Portsmouth live on Sky managed a full house last Monday.

Rovers are either doing something wrong or just ahead of everybody else going into recession.

[stuwilky]

When was the last time either of those clubs failed to sell out their home fan areas for a league match?

[Flopsy]

8. Manchester United

[MCMC1875]

Possibly the worst thing the club could do for the Liverpool game IMO, is lay on over the top/over aggressive/in yer face stewarding.

A low key approach should be adopted to diffuse the situation......

......together with a 3-0 win (Stead 2, pen) and free ale.

[mrsjansen]

I've just posted a letter to John Williams, fair enough I may not get a reply but at least he will know how fans feel.

I told him that our beloved club was going to the dogs, and being run by people who don't care about this club and all they care about is whether they have money in their pockets.

I pointed out that the onw person who cared about the fans would be turning in his grave if he could see what was happening to his club, and that maybe Mr Williams ought to take a long hard look at the statue of Jack Wlker the next tiem he is at the ground and realise that that is what Blackburn is all about. The hard working fan, who has a dream of turning there beloved club around and of believing that the players whose wages we pay have the same passion. The same fight the same belief, but how can we get that off players, when we can't get that off supporters, the reason we can't get it off supporters, is because it's not there by people who run the club.

I also warned that sometime soon there may well be a backlash from the hard core Rovers fans. I fear that day.

[Ricky]

Not sure if John Williams is to blame for the mess we are in at the moment Mrs Jansen. I've always felt he is an excellent Chief Exec.

[stuwilky]

Not sure if John Williams is to blame for the mess we are in at the moment Mrs Jansen. I've always felt he is an excellent Chief Exec.

I think you are correct Ricky, but as the club 'boss' perhaps he is the best person to have some influence over certain others?

[den]

If John Williams is guilty of anything, it's backing his manager too far. Maybe a wiser C.E. would have realised a little earlier what was happening.

[Hasta]

Let's get a few things straight:

1) You can't stand at football matches.  End of story.  And I don't mean when goals go in or at corners etc., you all know what I mean.  Anyone who defies this rule deserves to be (and should be) thrown out.  You all know the rules and when you bought your ticket you agreed to abide by them.

Now, I'm all for people who want to campaign for standing areas, and good luck to you, but until it happens then you can't stand.  And you can't make the excuse about the away fans either.  Two wrongs don't make a right and it's their club that will have to deal with the consequences.

2) The blokes who got chucked out last week appear to have been mouthing off to a policeman.  If that's true then they deserved what they got.

3) The antagonism in the Blackburn End was apparently caused by a Boro fan in one of the boxes taunting the home fans with a piece of paper.  Grow up FFS.  Football fans taunt other football fans, it's a fact of life and you really need to get over yourselves.

4) The lack of atmosphere at Ewood is a result of a number of different things.  First of all though let's make it clear - it's not just Ewood.  Virtually every home ground in the Premiership has the same problems.

Scotty, I agree with every point you say to some degree. However :-

1) That MUST surely apply to the away fans also. Yes Rovers fans should sit but you can't have the stewards and police being heavy handed in the BB end and nothing in the Darwen End else it's double standards. If away fans continue to stand it is OUR GROUND that according to the safety guidelines will have areas closed - not that of the away fans.

2)They still shouldnt have done it but if they were mouthing off it was due to the very bad atmosphere in that area caused by Stewarding / Standing / Point 3. Their arrest was for public order offences but caused by the root of this problem.

3) Yes its childinsh but unfortunately it's the way of the world that some people take the bait. Rovers are far better off preventing the 5 or 6 away fans in the box from 'taunting' than trying to control the 100+ unhappy home fans underneath.

4) 100% agre

Another quick point on the Buzz factor. As some people might be aware I have two real passions - Rovers and Horse Racing. I'm a ST holder and I've missed about 10 home games in the last 3 years to go to various big race meeting. Prior to then I'd never missed any. Why? I don't know but something is missing.

Edited October 23, 2004 by Hasta

[cletus]

I`ve been told by a reliable source that the Boro fans in the box above the BBE were 'friends & families' of the Boro players.

[colin]

There's a lot of things that have been said on here repeated in this article on today's Observer newspaper it makes interesting reading, not least that we are top of the list of clubs with fans disappearing.

A rather depressing read.

It looks like money replaces atmosphere.