Stewarding and the club/fan relationship

[Glenn]

The following was posted to the Rovers Mailing list by John Chamley (an ex-steward and Rovers supporter since 1964) and is reposted here with his permission, I hope you all find it as intresting a read as I did.

I have only edited out very minor bits that are not relevent to our discussion, but please note it is not a direct response to any post on here.

Also, sorry about the bad formatting, but this was cut and pasted from an email.

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I spent ten years working at Ewood as a steward missing just one competitive game in that time. I have done pretty well all of the tasks required of stewards from Car Park Steward to

Logistics Officer and have been personally responsible for the supervision of up to 70 stewards and 8,000 spectators at a time. I have had experience at all levels of home and away fans both at Ewood and

at a number of other local clubs when Rovers stewards were used to supplement their own for big matches.

I was paid for doing that job and was expected to perform well and fulfill the duties given to me. I attended countless training courses and excercises covering all aspects of the job, many supporters

are unaware of just how much goes into creating and maintaining a safe environment as unobtrusively as possible. Training is mandatory and stewards are tested and certificated only if they reach the required level.

The amount of work, organisation and attention to detail is something that has won Rovers' stewarding operation much praise over the years and many clubs have used Rovers as a model for their training.

I sit here wondering when you last went to a game as you seem to be completely out of touch with the nature of a football crowd. The majority want to watch the game in comfort & safety but there are others who have a different agenda. They are there to show how hard they are

and to try and provoke reactions whenever they can. They are adept at pushing stewards and police to the limit and will do anything possible to be the focus of attention including standing and refusing to sit down by 'ignoring' all requests. So why don't the stewards make them all sit

down?

The priority of the stewarding team & the Police is, and always will be, the safety of anyone and everyone inside the stadium and on Rovers' property outside.

Controlling several thousand away fans safely is a major undertaking, made more difficult because it is hard to exert pressure without causing a greater problem. Home fans can be identified by seat numbers and can be contacted by the club in an effort to solve the problem. Withdrawal of season tickets and banning orders are a last resort but the threat does offer good leverage.

Trying to eject a large number of hostile away fans poses so much danger to innocent spectators that it is also a last resort and was never an option in my time there, the yobs are also aware of this. Individuals could be identified and safely removed from the ground the first time they went for a

pee or a pint, such joy was often had by letting them buy a drink at extortionate prices then ejecting them before they had even taken a sip! More often than not, the remaining 'fans' in that area would give a second thought to their behaviour, but not all of them all of the time. Another factor is, who do you eject when there are a thousand people standing?

Many of them may only be standing because those in front are blocking their view and so you have a knock on effect, do you eject those people? How do you distinguish?

Standing is not an arrestable offence but it is a failure to comply with the Ground Regulations and may result in being asked to leave the Ground or being escorted out. The two Rovers fans were arrested for Public Order offences, not for standing.

So far a workable solution has not been found but it is not for lack of trying over the years. All I can say to you and others who feel that they are being unfairly treated is, rise above the behaviour of the yobs who think that they can do what they want with impunity. The more people who can do that, the safer the grounds will be and gradually the few who try to spoil it for the many will become isolated and more easily identified and dealt with. I am still in touch with many of the current stewards and I'm sure that they do not think that it is alright for away fans to stand while home fans must sit, they are acting on instructions that are passed from

the Safety Officer and the Matchday Ground Commander.

The difficulty in removing someone from a seated area was highlighted during a combined training excercise with the Police and Stewards some years ago. Around 30 stewards were sat in the Darwen End and the

'Riot Squad' had to remove one from the centre of the group. We (the stewards) were asked to take the role of 'boisterous' fans and we did it with a true sense of realism. When the Police tried to take one person out they met with much passive opposition and verbal abuse. We linked arms and stayed our ground until, after a couple of minutes, the Inspector in charge called a halt. It was virtually impossible for the highly paid and trained officers to do the job without a serious risk of injury to someone, we also managed to grab two of their telescopic batons in the melee! The brief was that no-one was to be injured and this made the operation even harder. With a hostile bunch of yobs it would be the recipe for disaster so the stewards do know what they're doing.

Clubs are co-operating with each other to try and solve the problem and one way is to identify the offenders and ban them from their own grounds. This takes a lot of time and resources and again there is the problem of 'innocent' fans standing because they can't see over those standing in front.

Stewards are paid but not fantastic wages, they are also part-time, covering maybe 25 games a year, so for them to be trained and perform professionally is a big ask but one that Rovers have managed to achieve

on the whole. If you were getting paid 20 quid a match, would you take threatening abuse from a bunch of alcohol fuelled thugs who will do all they can to intimidate and provoke? It takes bottle to do what many of them have to and I can only commend them for it. Of course their are some shirkers as in every job but on the whole they do a good job that often

goes without recognition. The only time we hear anything from some fans is when an incident has taken place and they have judged it without knowing the facts. How many games have been watched in safety and

comfort by many thousands over the last 12 years? It wasn't just coincidence or luck that made that possible. Rovers stewards were voted by away fans as the best in the League during my time there. They were said to be friendly & helpful with a sense of humour, not antagonistic like they are at certain grounds, especially those were Agency Stewards are used.

I know how much I put into the job, nothing was too much trouble and I treated people as I would like to have been treat, home and aways fans alike. That attitude was the one that got the best results. Your jibes at the stewards are an insult that I still feel personally as I helped trained many of them over the years.

[Regarding John Newsome] John started as a steward in the old Darwen End and worked his way up to Safety Officer. He shared the responsibility of overseeing the safety aspect of the construction work as well as that of the employees, visitors etc not to mention the huge operation on match days. There is no-one at Ewood with a greater knowledge or experience than him and I'm sure he would do his best to oblige, just ask him.

JC

[CAPT KAYOS]

1. Standing is not an arrestable offence but it is a failure to comply with the Ground Regulations and

may result in being asked to leave the Ground or being escorted out.

2.The two Rovers fans were arrested for Public Order offences, not for standing.

3.So far a workable solution has not been found but it is not for lack of trying over the years.

4. All I can say to you and others who feel that they are being unfairly treated is,

rise above the behaviour of the yobs

5. Clubs are co-operating with each other to try and solve the problem and one way is to identify the

offenders and ban them from their own grounds.

6.The only time we hear anything from some fans is when an incident hastaken placeand they have judged it without knowing the facts.

Thanks for the info Glenn -

Not wanting to sound argumentative here, but here's my response from a fans viewpoint:-

1. Now being realised by more and being played upon because they don't feel it is justified when no choice is given - hence campaigns being started for Standing Up

2. As I have said previously - the fans arrested (if we are talking about the same) may have been arrested for Public Order odffences but from what I saw this was as a result of the actions of the stewards initially.

3. Workable solution - where the bloody hell are they looking and asking - how about asking the fan groups etc (unless this has already been done - would appear genuine realistic options have been put forward by respective fan groups over the years -so what are the problems?)

4. Think they'll find a lot of fans are going about it the proper/official way - problem being is that all fans are being tarnished with the same brush (like the stewards by fans) and any reasoning seems to fall on deaf ears. Most fans are aware of the rules and try to be reasonable re the standing situation and don't want to cause an interference to another's comfort or viewing. What doesn't help is the 'stand' the officials are taking to rectify the problem which inturn leads to unrest amongst the fans

5. And this is the major problem - trying to ban and alienate the fan rather than looking at the root of the problem - If clubs are co-operating - MAKE IT KNOWN - show the fans the Clubs are being pro-active rather than remaining secret. - some people want to have the 'CHOICE' to stand

6. Probably because they are not told of the facts. ( see # 5)

Appears to me the people who can do something about it are channelling their efforts in the wrong areas as usual instead of working with the people it effects the most - THE FANS.

Any way of replying to him by the Admin thanking him for his honest views and time - if not and you are reading John C - thankyou for your time and effort and explaining the situation from the other side so to speak and a good response none the less

[Hasta]

Thanks for posting that Glenn. It makes interesting reading and does make you think what it would be like to be in the Stewards shoes. I'm sure that a lot of the stewards are just following orders and are decent people.

However it still doesn't really explain why some of the stewards have an attitude that stinks not just to the alcohol fuelled yobs but also to the everyday supporter.

And as for the away fans, lets all stand up at the Reebok this year and count the seconds before we start getting whizzed out there. When Ive been away other clubs don't seem to care about chucking away fans out for standing and, despite causing considerable bad feeling, the away fans then generally sit down.

Everton away a couple of years ago (when Lucas got sent off again!) is a game that springs to mind.

[stuwilky]

Right,

Today I spent two and a half hours with Stuart Caley at the ground. I want to go on record to Thank him for his time, and for the information he shared with me.

OK, a number of points to raise as a result of my own queries and observations and those of others.

Flags - the club have no specific hard and fast rule regarding their flags - there are a number of places they cannot be placed, unfortunately at Ewood the "best" place (ie over the barriers at the exits) is taken up by both a sponsorship hoarding and most importantly an emergency exit signs. Despite the fact that EVERYONE knows where the exit is there is legislation in place that these must not be covered. HOWEVER, The club are more than happy for flags to be placed anywhere not blocking the safe access and egress to the ground or covering sponsorship hoardings. An example of a suitable place would be over the every increasing empty seats.

The most pressing issue. Standing.

I brought up the "Stand Up, Sit Down" campaign. The club are aware of the campaign and also of their proposals, however, at this stage all Premier League clubs are not commenting specifically and the Football Licensing Authority are about to commence discussions. I asked what BRFC's reponse would be if the FLA recommended that "safe standing" areas are acceptable. Stuart stated quite clearly that he could not speak on behalf of the club, however they were led by FLA recommendations.

Regarding the issue of the feeling that away fans are treated different and that the same action is not taken with them as it is with us. This is true. The fans all receive a letter with their match tickets (similar to the one given out with match tickets for high profile games) it outlines the clubs policy on standing. There is also posters on display inside and outside the ground.

The club is now required to report the bahviour of both sets of fans to the FLA after every PremierLeague game - the FLA is currently reducing away allocations to those clubs who persistantly stand. Aston Villa having recently been on the end of such a reduction at the Valley.

The problem for Blackburn Rovers is that we actually do not want this to happen for a number of reasons, financial, and the fact that away fans would then be more likely to buy tickets in home areas.

The Stewards.

I raised the issue of problematic stewarding. For me this was the biggest issue. I firmly believe that some of the stewards actually make the situation worse rather than helping it. To support my argument I gave Stuart 15 pages of extracts from various threads of this forum where people cite stewarding as a reason for not going to matches, Stuart felt that this was being over stated, my response was that perhaps it was the straw that broke the camels back so to speak. Fans are disgruntled with the on-field events but the off-field aspects were the final straw.

Stuart has assured me that all the stewards are about to start a number of training courses on aspects of customer services. There may also be some slight changes to the siting of certain stewards.

I was also given a tour of the facilities at Ewood, the control room in the Darwen End, amongst other places.

Whilst we still would seem to have fundamental differences on the issue of standing itself, I do feel better for having voiced my concerns to the clubs. Especially my fears for this saturday. Stuart has also said that their office door is always open for fans who want to discuss this (or any other issue) and I have said that I will return at some point later in the season with an update from the fans perspective.

The one thing we did agree on is that the Blackburn End was noisier than it has been for some time in the closing minutes of the Boro game and that it would be great if that noise would be carried forward into future games to support the team.

I am sure that I have missed some things out from our discussion, and if anything comes to me I will post it seperately.

[roversmum]

Thanks to Stuwilky for the time and trouble taken on this issue.

Pity about the flags in a way because most people who would want to display them are probably in congested areas where there are't many spaces to put them.

The one thing we did agree on is that the Blackburn End was noisier than it has been for some time in the closing minutes of the Boro game and that it would be great if that noise would be carried forward into future games to support the team.

How about the club putting in a few sneaky microphones around and turning the volume up .......

It's fair to say that the stewards need to keep in mind that not everyone is a potential troublemaker - I've had issue with Stuart over that before last season - but unfortunately the lad I was trying to stand up for let himself down by trying to make himself look good by swearing.

[roversWASmylife]

The one thing we did agree on is that the Blackburn End was noisier than it has been for some time in the closing minutes of the Boro game and that it would be great if that noise would be carried forward into future games to support the team.

I am sure that I have missed some things out from our discussion, and if anything comes to me I will post it seperately.

Wasn't this because that particular area of the Blackburn End was standing for the majority of the second half, resulting in a better atmosphere that was created?

Thankyou anyway Stu for speaking to him about this topic.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Wasn't this because that particular area of the Blackburn End was standing for the majority of the second half, resulting in a better atmosphere that was created?

Exactly - and this is the crux of the problem (can' they get it into their thick eeds???)

They can't have it both ways - they either get their arses in gear and put pressure on the FLA as this has been coming for a long time - or they have to put up with the hassle of disruptive spectators and dwindling crowds.

You cannot create any decent atmosphere sat on yer arses - unless we all bring in our banjos ( and then they would be considered dangerous weapons ) unless you are Bobf who is a dangerous weapon in himself

Well done Stu W and thanks for taking time out to do this

[ABBEY]

Wasn't this because that particular area of the Blackburn End was standing for the majority of the second half, resulting in a better atmosphere that was created?

Exactly - and this is the crux of the problem (can' they get it into their thick eeds???)

They can't have it both ways - they either get their arses in gear and put pressure on the FLA as this has been coming for a long time - or they have to put up with the hassle of disruptive spectators and dwindling crowds.

You cannot create any decent atmosphere sat on yer arses - unless we all bring in our banjos ( and then they would be considered dangerous weapons ) unless you are Bobf who is a dangerous weapon in himself

Well done Stu W and thanks for taking time out to do this

*****THE ABSTER SALUTES********

[trueblue]

I had to bring this to the top again... not to bemoan the Rovers stewards, but actually praise one of them !

I sit in the Jack Walker Upper and when I arrived at the ground for todays game and took my seat I found to my disgust that there were 4 scouse gits sat in the row in front of me !!

Banter was exchanged between us - but all credit to the steward, she brought a senior steward and a police man to move the offending scouse scum before it got nasty.

Well done Emma !

I will be sending an email to John Williams tomorrow praising this young lady !

[Uddersfelt Blue]

Were they causing you a problem?

Or do you just object to scousers?

[trueblue]

Were they causing you a problem?

Or do you just object to scousers?

No, I don't just object to scousers.. in fact some of my best friends are scousers.

[roversWASmylife]

At the game yesterday I thought as the stewards didn't give any fans, from what I saw, no hassle everyone in the Blackburn End enjoyed the game.

The atmosphere from the Blackburn End was great last night at the game, if the stewards were to let fans enjoy the game last night like they did then everyone concerned will enjoy the game, resulting in no trouble.

[Paul]

I'd like to echo that. From what I saw looking doiwn from the upper tier there were few stewards visible and the vast majority of fans sat down. It was also good to see that when fans where stood up there was no immediate reaction from the stewards. I thought the rendition of "Stand up for the Blackburn End" beautifully timed.

Perhaps both sides have seen the light?

[Uddersfelt Blue]

Were they causing you a problem?

Or do you just object to scousers?

No, I don't just object to scousers.. in fact some of my best friends are scousers.

So what was the problem?

[stuwilky]

Were they causing you a problem?

Or do you just object to scousers?

No, I don't just object to scousers.. in fact some of my best friends are scousers.

So what was the problem?

Perhaps something to do with away fans in a home area with the potential for all the resulting aggro that would cause?

[1864roverite]

They got rid of that couple in the BBE lower tier pretty quickly, saved the lad from a hiding altough I have to say the lad who was swinging the punches is obviously not a fighter aas he missed several times by a mile !

the girlie scouse fan's salute just showed that she is indeed a clown and should be lining up a tthe next visit of the circus......with the elephants !

[Ben-2000]

nice to see that the stewards/police didn't try making the back of block NO1 sit down this time!