[Archived] Boxing Day, Rovers v Weds, 26th December 2013

[FGS5635]

Im a bowyer fan (funny how you need to state things like this on MB's before making a point lol ), but he had a bad day yesterday and there is no getting away from it.

He has to be more postitve in home games

With this shef / birmingham at home double header its better to win one and lose one than draw 2. But I cant help but feel bowyer would disagree

[Blue blood]

Regarding Bowyer I do think that he's as good as we're going to get but that he's not good enough to get us promoted. He's got a lot of promise but most disappointingly about yesterday was he made his 3 main mistakes once again.

1) Williamson and Lowe. Shoring up the midfield - fine no problems with that. But the answer to doing so is NOT Lowe and Williamson. They both play too deep and surrender possession horribly. Being able to keep possession is key to winning the midfield as well as battling.

IF it was to work, having a Lowe-Williamson combination puts even more pressure on the 3 behind the main striker, especially player in the hole to create - which is unfair on Marshall. He's not a Dunn or Rochina type player. Added to which with Cairney as one of the 3, being out wide - a position he is much weaker in - it was never going to work. Perhaps a King-Dunn-Marshall combination all in form in their best positions could compensate for their defensive abilities. A Cairney-Marshall-King was always going to struggle.

2) Dropping easy points at home. Yes our home record is pretty good, and nothing should be taken forgranted but we are repeatedly dropping points against uninspiring teams at home. Charlton, Huddersfield, and now Wednesday (as well as apparently an out of sorts Reading) have all been there for the taking - and we've come away thinking we should have done better. Even if not a win, we should have put more pressure on them. Happening 3 or 4 times already suggests this is becoming a habit and a weakness of Rovers.

3) Critising Rovers fans to cover the team and his mistakes. This is really class-less. It didn't work for Appleton, and won't work for him. It started with criticising fans for having a go at Kean, for being well, Kean. The performances he was putting in made it more than acceptable for fans to not be content - but he has a go. A lack of tactical nous today - again, why round on the fans for voicing their displeasure at that. If he keeps it up, he may well lose a lot of the good will he has from fans.

[den]

Certain posters really do need to read this carefully, it's absolutely spot on. It's amazing we didn't do a Wolves last season (we nearly did though) and yet this season people seem to be expecting playoffs at a canter. Advocating Bowyer's departure or calling him clueless, etc is not only ridiculous but disgusting IMO.

That being said, Bowyer definitely didn't get it right today. What some seem to be forgetting is that he's a rookie manager, he's going to make these errors. He's learning on the spot and doing one hell of a job in the circumstances. Think McLeish, Coyle, or any of the other assorted chancers out of work would have us achieving more? Please. The ONLY person who may do a better job under the circumstances and who could theoretically come to the club is Holloway, and it's far from certain he'd emulate the stability Bowyer has brought to the club or the results. Plus after his last disaster interview with Shebby I'm not convinced he'd come anywhere near us anyway.

Considering there's a never ending call for fans to get real about the club's current situation, it's kind of baffling to read calls from the same people to accept anything less than a playoff place. If we are going to "get real" then we have to realise that finishing 7th is no better than finishing 17th. This season, IMO, is the last chance for the club. Any finish other than promotion is going to see the the club facing huge, huge problems. That's the reason why we should have looked around for the best possible manager, coupled him with a realistic transfer strategy and gone for it. Now then, even at this stage a judgement has to be made. If the owners believe that Bowyer is going to get us promotion, then they should stick with him. If on the other hand they don't think that's going to happen, then they need to look at the situation very closely.

I can't be doing with fans sleepwalking into oblivion. With the clubs current financial plight, I can't possibly see how we will survive after this season, certainly in comparison to what it is now.

[Blue blood]

Considering there's a never ending call for fans to get real about the club's current situation, it's kind of baffling to read calls from the same people to accept anything less than a playoff place. If we are going to "get real" then we have to realise that finishing 7th is no better than finishing 17th. This season, IMO, is the last chance for the club. Any finish other than promotion is going to see the the club facing huge, huge problems. That's the reason why we should have looked around for the best possible manager, coupled him with a realistic transfer strategy and gone for it. Now then, even at this stage a judgement has to be made. If the owners believe that Bowyer is going to get us promotion, then they should stick with him. If on the other hand they don't think that's going to happen, then they need to look at the situation very closely.

I can't be doing with fans sleepwalking into oblivion. With the clubs current financial plight, I can't possibly see how we will survive after this season, certainly in comparison to what it is now.

YES - absolutely, nailed on, right to the point. It's very much literally promotion or bust and we're happy to slowly sink there this season instead of dive there.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Considering there's a never ending call for fans to get real about the club's current situation, it's kind of baffling to read calls from the same people to accept anything less than a playoff place. If we are going to "get real" then we have to realise that finishing 7th is no better than finishing 17th. This season, IMO, is the last chance for the club. Any finish other than promotion is going to see the the club facing huge, huge problems. That's the reason why we should have looked around for the best possible manager, coupled him with a realistic transfer strategy and gone for it. Now then, even at this stage a judgement has to be made. If the owners believe that Bowyer is going to get us promotion, then they should stick with him. If on the other hand they don't think that's going to happen, then they need to look at the situation very closely.

I can't be doing with fans sleepwalking into oblivion. With the clubs current financial plight, I can't possibly see how we will survive after this season, certainly in comparison to what it is now.

Good points. If the game really is promotion or bust, I agree. It just doesn't seem we are going for it 100% at board or pitch level..At board level, this has been fairly obvious since the close season transfer dealings.

Maybe there is a different strategy. Even after the last 3 years, I struggle to accept that there is no strategy at all?

[Stuart]

Whilst I agree with den, this is what makes Bowyer's tenure a strange one. He seems to have no time to build a new, young side but seems to be trying to do exactly that. He wants us to have patience and understanding when the backdrop from the perspective of our finances is so dire.

I guess, when the time comes, Bowyer will get a new gig elsewhere whereas Rovers new gig will be a lot, lot different.

I just hope that if we are deducted 10 points through admin, and potentially relegated, then Bowyer remains loyal and sticks with us in League One when other jobs become available.

I also hope we don't have to look back at this fixture if we miss out on the play-offs by 2 points.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Whilst I agree with den, this is what makes Bowyer's tenure a strange one. He seems to have no time to build a new, young side but seems to be trying to do exactly that. He wants us to have patience and understanding when the backdrop from the perspective of our finances is so dire.

I guess, when the time comes, Bowyer will get a new gig elsewhere whereas Rovers new gig will be a lot, lot different.

I just hope that if we are deducted 10 points through admin, and potentially relegated, then Bowyer remains loyal and sticks with us in League One when other jobs become available.

I also hope we don't have to look back at this fixture if we miss out on the play-offs by 2 points.

Absolutely. So much of our decision making seems incongruent with the financial backdrop...unless we are actually planning to take the 10 point hit and stay up. But nothing has added up -in any sense-since we were ...er..infected.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Can't understand Bowyer being happy with a draw at home to a poor Wednesday side,or is he really just being realistic with this sides capabilities?

Perhaps he knows deep down what most fans know..this side is going nowhere.

[pick32]

Another clean sheet is a bonus but poor tactics and substitutions means 2points dropped. Haven't said that we're still in a good position and hope bowyer is given a couple of years at least to build a good young team.

[ABBEY]

Can't see how that's a valuable point unless he's thinking point deductions for admin and we are point further from relegation . But saying a point is valuable at home is valuable is along the lines of keans venky fan brainwashing ilk.

It's no secret my other passion is the NFL and I always respect broncos season ticket holders and never slate their opinions as I only see games on game pass . On this board it seems people who don't go to games are happy with everything that happens and hang on every word of interviews etc.

Yesterday there were 20 mins left and people were leaving in droves and I would say 99.9% were all saying stuff like .. How much more of this shot do we have to watch , too negative , bored and half hearted .

As for the mcD incident if your a weds fan in that mini bus starting fights in a place full of kids what a bunch of cowards you are. I was waiting for the ex to pick my lad up and a lad and his little sister came over to us upset and distraut and asked to stand with us whilst his mum came .

[Al]

This match cried out for a player with flair and in Dunny's absence there was only one choice to make to replace him and that was Rochina. Amazingly when the match cried out for him to break down the Wednesday defence he was unbelievably left on the bench until 10 minutes before the end. Far too late.

Bowyer you are going to lose the best player you are likely to ever have simply because you refuse to play him.

Rochina wants to play football and he is being stifled here. I will be peed off if he leaves in January but cannot blame him if he does.

[FGS5635]

Bizzare how ruben has fallen out of favour. Bowyer always picked him when caretaker. He selected him 1st game of the season and then he barely gets a minute now.

If Dunn had of been fit I doubt he changed the side / formation that won last time out, so why not just replace dunn with ruben at home against a struggling side and 'Go for it'

[Neal]

I can understand Bowyers frustration - people already seem to expect wins - which in this division just isn't possible. Looking at Weds recent record - this was never a definite three points that many expected. Possibly some people need to actually think before they react - a bit like the howls of anger directed at the referee when the Weds player passed the ball back with his knee.

For each of your points - "why change a winning formation" - horses for courses - Wednesday were a huge team and possibly he felt he needed the extra height ? Personally I would have started with Rochina - but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

"Why move Cairney out wide" - personally I think it was because he felt we were losing the midfield (which we were) - putting him out wide in theory gives him more freedom.

"Why not bring on Rochina earlier" - he decided to push Marshall into that role - I presume because he felt Marshall would help stiffen up the midfield more than Rochina. Again - I agree I would personally have brought on Rochina sooner - but in truth he had little impact when he came on anyway.

"Why send up Dann for corners" - usually we send both up - but in this case I think it was because we were playing the land of the giants - any balls cleared up to their monster no 34 would have been difficult for Henley to handle whereas Hanley (my MOM) did a good job against a far taller opponent.

"Why take off a centre forward for a midfield player" - we were losing the battle in midfield - we actually reverted to the formation you wanted us to start with (Marshall in the Dunn role) - so surprised you complaied about this.

You played with my words a little there, I said why take off a forward for a HOLDING midfielder & we wouldn't of been losing the midfield battle if we'd have stuck with a winning formation in the first place... So the point is moot.

Cairney was knackered and he doesn't have the pace to play wide right, my point is he could have sat deep to take the ball off the back 4 & set up play. He could have taken an ineffective Lowe off and played Rochina wide right with more freedom.... EARLIER.

I take your point about sending Dann forward but my whole post was best on frustration at Bowyers over cautious approach to this winnable game against a poor Wednesday side. We have a corner, at home, against a beatable side... SEND YOUR BEST HEADER OF A BALL FORWARD!!! (Hanley) It's a bloody joke.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

I take your point about sending Dann forward but my whole post was best on frustration at Bowyers over cautious approach to this winnable game against a poor Wednesday side. We have a corner, at home, against a beatable side... SEND YOUR BEST HEADER OF A BALL FORWARD!!! It's a bloody joke.

Grant Hanley had been limping for a while and at one stage was going off with Kilgallon warming up. I suggest this was the only reason why Hanley was not going up for corners.

[thenodrog]

Can't understand Bowyer being happy with a draw at home to a poor Wednesday side,

Quite simple... they weren't a poor side. New manager bounce imo. I haven't read back farther than this page but I've got to say the booing at the final whistle was bloody pathetic and unfortunately typical of the Ewood faithful these days. Too many watch with very critical blue and white specs and know nothing about the opposition other than league position. In a nutshell and imo neither team deserved to lose and it was plain to me that neither team had come for a draw either. Sheffield Wednesday came with the simple but effective tactic to press our rather flimsy 4 man midfield very hard up the field in order to keep the supply away from JR and it worked a treat

As to the match I agreed with my mate who observed near the end that the MoM was Kirkland for keeping them in the game in a number of one on ones (albeit of the pretty feeble variety), although tbf our defence seemed much more overworked overall then theirs. We suffered from the loss of Taylor as his replacement meant that we effectively had players suited to 4-3-3 rather than the starting 4-4-2. Dunno where Dunny was apart from it being Xmas again but he would surely have caused them much more problems in our more normal 4-4-1-1. Williamson's (could he be the slowest player in professional football I wonder?) introduction was completely necessary to stiffen up our overworked midfield pair and to allow us to get out of our own half after Sheff Wed had penned us in after the interval.

Why tf Gestede was withdrawn instead of Jordan Rhodes is beyond me. He's raw but on yesterdays showing he is a handful and has a major physical presence and a startling turn of pace too. Maybe Bowyer was hoping for a penalty but I'm pretty sure the Wednesday defence was glad that Rhodes was left on as stopping him in the light of the constant stream of hoofballs from our two centre halves (with obvious learning difficulties) was like taking candy off a baby. Yesterday was another of those days when JR was completely anonymous.

[Stuart]

Ha. It's Rhodes fault again, eh, Gordon? Chuffing unbelievable!

Oh, and Wednesday were poor. Not sure where your freebie tickets were situated but your reading of this game is well off.

Bowyer hoping for a penalty? Goodness me.

Your contrariness for the sake of it, sometimes astounds.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

Quite simple... they weren't a poor side. New manager bounce imo. I haven't read back farther than this page but I've got to say the booing at the final whistle was bloody pathetic and unfortunately typical of the Ewood faithful these days. Too many watch with very critical blue and white specs and know nothing about the opposition other than league position. In a nutshell and imo neither team deserved to lose and it was plain to me that neither team had come for a draw either. Sheffield Wednesday came with the simple but effective tactic to press our rather flimsy 4 man midfield very hard up the field in order to keep the supply away from JR and it worked a treat

As to the match I agreed with my mate who observed near the end that the MoM was Kirkland for keeping them in the game in a number of one on ones (albeit of the pretty feeble variety), although tbf our defence seemed much more overworked overall then theirs. We suffered from the loss of Taylor as his replacement meant that we effectively had players suited to 4-3-3 rather than the starting 4-4-2. Dunno where Dunny was apart from it being Xmas again but he would surely have caused them much more problems in our more normal 4-4-1-1. Williamson's (could he be the slowest player in professional football I wonder?) introduction was completely necessary to stiffen up our overworked midfield pair and to allow us to get out of our own half after Sheff Wed had penned us in after the interval.

Why tf Gestede was withdrawn instead of Jordan Rhodes is beyond me. He's raw but on yesterdays showing he is a handful and has a major physical presence and a startling turn of pace too. Maybe Bowyer was hoping for a penalty but I'm pretty sure the Wednesday defence was glad that Rhodes was left on as stopping him in the light of the constant stream of hoofballs from our two centre halves (with obvious learning difficulties) was like taking candy off a baby. Yesterday was another of those days when JR was completely anonymous.

Pretty much how I would sum the match up. Many on here seem to forget that Wednesday have recently done a job on Leicester. They were a big physical side and far much of the second half were on top. Rochina may have changes things but as many of the best managers will point out the best sides are built with a strong defence. At the time of the second sub, Wednesday were on top and putting Adam Henley under a lot of pressure. Willaimson coming on seem to stop that avenue but also nulified Rovers attacking options. With Rovers going more direct it was probably a bad time to take Gastede off but Rhodes is still only Rovers chance of a goal. Personally Cairney should have gone off second, with Rochina coming on but I could understand why Bowyer did what he did. At 0-0 he hoped Rhodes would pinch a goal.

[Gav]

Everyone calling for Rochina to be introduced is all well and good but how many times has he made an impact? changed a game in his time here? hardly ever from memory. When Bowyer did bring him on he never touched the ball, he's not the answer to our problems.

The side is devoid of real quality across the park, the manager isn't good enough either, but thats where we are today, a mid table side with a mid table manager and nothings going to change any time soon.

As for Wednesday not being a poor side, they've got a caretaker manager in charge and have just been beaten at home by a very poor Bournemouth side, that in itself speaks volumes.

[FGS5635]

If you asked the big shef wed centre halves who they'd hate to play against most out of Gestede and Rochina, Im fairly certain they'd have said Rochina.

Putting a physical centre forward against physical centre halves just seems pointless imo. Get ruben up there with JR and see how the big centre halves like being turned and run at all game

[dingles staying down 4ever]

What yesterday showed that without Dunn, this team is just like the majority of the division. Its just a shame he can't manage more than 60 minutes in a week.

If you asked the big shef wed centre halves who they'd hate to play against most out of Gestede and Rochina, Im fairly certain they'd have said Rochina.

Putting a physical centre forward against physical centre halves just seems pointless imo. Get ruben up there with JR and see how the big centre halves like being turned and run at all game

or would they like being run at by King. Gestede did them for pace so imagine what King would have done? Rochina would have just been crowded out. Gestede won headers when the ball was aimed at him rather than Rhodes. If he flicked on with King running on to them.

[K-Hod]

The main problem with Gestede yesterday, he was playing so far from Rhodes that link-up play was difficult and we should probably have gone with 5 in midfield.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

The league table never lies Theno..they are one of the poorer sides in this tin pot championship.

[FGS5635]

or would they like being run at by King. Gestede did them for pace so imagine what King would have done? Rochina would have just been crowded out. Gestede won headers when the ball was aimed at him rather than Rhodes. If he flicked on with King running on to them.

Im just not a fan of 442 in thi division, especially with our squad as I dont think it suits us at all. That said if GB does want to play 442 I've said before he should play king up top. Not for anything he does as such, just for the simple fact that his pace makes other teams defend deeper. As a result JR plays higher up the pitch where he is more of a threat and the midfield play higher again making it easier to create

[Amo]

Rovers boss Gary Bowyer was puzzled after his side was booed off at full-time.

"The progress we're making is decent - that's six out of the last nine games where we've kept a clean sheet.

There's a chorus of boos round the ground, which I don't quite understand. We have to understand where we've come from. You always try to win the game, but if you can't get the three, make sure you get the one."

[roverstdt]

I am not a fan of 442 either in this division I would love to see us set up a 4 3 3 formation with the midfield

Henley Dann Hanley Spurr

Cairney Evans Dunn/Lowe

Marshall Rhodes Rochina/Taylor