[Archived] Gary Bowyer Discussion

[Andyblue2]

Those who are in favour of GB are obviously not going down and witnessing the lifeless morgue of a ground on a Saturday at 3.00pm. We need some pazzaz, something more. There is no excitement, it's dire rubbish fom a bunch of bums who have no respect for their manager in the proper sense, and therefore no respect for us or the club. Cairney is a perfect example of someone taking the piiss and showing a general malaise about his play and tracking back. No discipline, no ambition and they should all feck off first thing tomorrow .

[Rover_Shaun]

Those who are in favour of GB are obviously not going down and witnessing the lifeless morgue of a ground on a Saturday at 3.00pm. We need some pazzaz, something more. There is no excitement, it's dire rubbish fom a bunch of bums who have no respect for their manager in the proper sense, and therefore no respect for us or the club. Cairney is a perfect example of someone taking the piiss and showing a general malaise about his play and tracking back. No discipline, no ambition and they should all feck off first thing tomorrow .

Not sure about the validity of your first claim at all Andy.

All I know is the Father in Law has retired his season ticket. He can no longer be bothered. Like the players he says. He's not an internet user he doesn't use forums, he couldn't tell a Rovers Fan from a trembler, but all he says is "He should be sacked. Why shoud I make the effort and sit in the cold to watch that crap. Nobody knows what they are doing"

[47er]

Yes I do want Promotion.

Like I have said I have seen some very good performances this season but also some very poor performances aswell. Bowyer has bought well during his reign and got some players very cheap who has improve the team.

Some fans just think sack the manager and appoint another manager and every thing will be good and will be promotion next season. sadly it doesn't work that way. look at how experience managers have struggled this season in this league like Holloway or Mackay or Magath or Adkins.

Chaddy, Den asked you"What evidence have you seen so far that he(ie Bowyer) will get us there(ie promotion)?

As usual you have totally ignored that and parrotted the stuff you have given us ad nauseum. But you are not a WUM are you?

So what's new? It's happened before when we had riches but it was frittered away - and not by foreign owners. Nothing lasts forever.

Yes, we have seen all this before Parson, its just like 1911 or the 70's or whatever! No difference at all.

[Rover_Shaun]

We have lost fortunes before like in 1988 when Bill Fox gave his bus fare to a beggar for a brew, missed his bus and thus Rovers promotion hopes floundered

Hey but were not wigan so chin up, what what....you know, like wolves who went down to league one and are now...........doh!

[Darwen Rover 007]

Bowyer has absolutely reached his ceiling as a manager (10-8th); I am definitely in the we need a change of manager camp, the only problem I have is finding a suitable replacement.

[No Nay Never]

There seems to be this strange assumption that if we don't sack Bowyer the club can sit comfortably in mid-table with the same group of players for the foreseeable future.

On the other hand there is also an assumption that if we sack Bowyer then we will be returning to the premier league with a 'proper' manager.

No guarantees on either scenario....and in my opinion Bowyer is more likely to keep us in championship than someone coming in and getting our over rated squad promoted.

[gumboots]

Of course there are no guarantees. The problem is, there are no guarantees Gary bowyer can keep us in a similar position next year bearing in mind that our points total has probably gone down this year, he will have lost some players, we will probably still have a transfer embargo and about half the current season ticket holders will either have not renewed or are only there out of some sense of I won't let them drive me out of my club.

[chaddyrovers]

Those who are in favour of GB are obviously not going down and witnessing the lifeless morgue of a ground on a Saturday at 3.00pm.

I really don't know how you can come that kind of statement.

I attended every home league game. Never miss. Plus some away games.

[Parsonblue]

We have lost fortunes before like in 1988 when Bill Fox gave his bus fare to a beggar for a brew, missed his bus and thus Rovers promotion hopes floundered

Hey but were not wigan so chin up, what what....you know, like wolves who went down to league one and are now...........doh!

Too many people, I'm not including you Shaun, seem to think that Rovers began when Jack took over in 1991 and everything else that went before it was somehow a different club. The club dates back to 1875 and we have had purple periods and lean periods during that time. We have dominated English football in the past and it evaporated over a period of time. You could say history is now repeating itself. You mention Wolves, rather like the Rovers in 1979 who went down to the Third Division, rebounded immediately under a novice manager - in his first job and only a season or so of coaching experience behind him - and almost went straight back to the top flight before being denied on goal average. Glad you made the point about novice managers bringing success

[chaddyrovers]

Chaddy, Den asked you"What evidence have you seen so far that he(ie Bowyer) will get us there(ie promotion)?

As usual you have totally ignored that and parrotted the stuff you have given us ad nauseum. But you are not a WUM are you?

I did answer the question but clearly you didnt like the answer cos it doesn't suit your agenda.

[ABBEY]

Too many people, I'm not including you Shaun, seem to think that Rovers began when Jack took over in 1991 and everything else that went before it was somehow a different club. The club dates back to 1875 and we have had purple periods and lean periods during that time. We have dominated English football in the past and it evaporated over a period of time. You could say history is now repeating itself. You mention Wolves, rather like the Rovers in 1979 who went down to the Third Division, rebounded immediately under a novice manager - in his first job and only a season or so of coaching experience behind him - and almost went straight back to the top flight before being denied on goal average. Glad you made the point about novice managers bringing success

And how many times since 1875 have we been shafted by clueless owners from abroad who have ruined a top flight club and raked up 100 m in debts ? How many transfer embargoes have we had ?

[Hasta]

On the other hand there is also an assumption that if we sack Bowyer then we will be returning to the premier league with a 'proper' manager.

No guarantees on either scenario....and in my opinion Bowyer is more likely to keep us in championship than someone coming in and getting our over rated squad promoted.

And who assembled most of this overrated squad over the course of the last 2 years ???

Steele, Baptiste, Kilgallon, Taylor, Spearing, Cairney, Marshall, Brown, Gestede, Spurr

Of the 13 players who took to the pitch on Saturday, he has brought 10 of them in.

[den]

Come on den, you know as well as I do it's not as black and white as that. Plenty more factors come into play that have been well documented.

It's not black and white if you struggle to answer it Gav Theyre not trick questions, they're dead simple to most folk.

The problem for the people who want to keep him, is that the easy question of "what evidence have you seen that he's the man to get us promoted" causes them real problems, basically because there is none. We're two years in, over 100 games and 24ish new players - more than enough time to find that evidence.

Wanting promotion, having no evidence after all this time that he can get us up, yet wanting to keep him just doesn't equate to me. It's nonsensical. Just hoping something might happen.

[thenodrog]

I'm currently sat on the fence over this but in order to add some balance to this debate just supposing we sack Bowyer in the summer then how desirable will the position be to other manager's out there? "Sack the Manager" calls are increasing but has anybody bothered to study the mangerial market place? I've a feeling many haven't even bothered to address this necessary task in their rush to condemn GB. Any manager will be facing one hell of an uncertain future and the liklihood of losing any reputation he might have gained in the past. Effectively he'll be expected to fight a batle with one hand tied behind his back.

1. Unless I'm mistaken we are facing an exodus of our best players with the crap ones as usual refusing to go anywhere.

2. We are currently under a transfer embargo so the chances of signing good players would be virtually nil on two counts, said transfer embargo and the undesirability of BRFC to quality players and their agents. The transfer embargo is a double edged sword.

3. We have no money and are being prevented from having any by a combination of the rules of FFP and the now 'spoilt' generation of supporters who because of John Williams policies are nowturning away from the club because they are accustomed to cheap subsidised season tickets and are no longer prepared to pay even the going rate to watch football at this level.

4. We have erratic and unpredictable owners who do not understand the game over here and who imo will prove a deterrent to all but the very desperate.

As far as I can see we have no chance of attracting any established 'Name' in the Prem of course and I doubt any from the Championship either. Any current Manager of the likes of similar fallen giants e.g. wolves, Sheff Wed, Ipswich, Leeds, Charlton etc etc would surely put us bottom of a very long list. Could we even entice Manager's from one of the minnows of this Division such as Rotherham or Brentford? Personally i seriously doubt it as they would be snapped up by some club from the previous sentence.

That leaves out of work managers and those in Div's 1 and 2. Out of work managers are out of work for a rteason and Manager's of the top teams in Div 1, and lets take Grayson / PNE and Cotterill / Bristol city for examples would hardly be attracted to a club on a steeply declining curve with an uncertain future. That leaves our possible gathering ground being the nearly men populating the rest of those two divisions. No doubt fond memories might perceive Keith Hill and Flitty to be the best of that lot but are they really an improvement?

I suggest anybody currently popularising the line "I'm not buying another ST with GB as Manager" had better find some other form of entertainment for Saturdays next season in order to actually contribute to our demise rather than witness the club's continuing downward spiral . Trudging behind the Mrs's around the Trafford Centre of Ikea being the obvious fate in store for most I'd suggest.

[Paul]

As I sat watching one of the most miserable performances in a long, long time pretty much the same thoughts went through my mind.

Given everything that has and continues to happen at Ewood I find it hard to imagine quality managerial or coaching staff and players will be attracted in the summer.

I longed for watching Nicky Reid plough through the mud or Simon Barker crafting a ball towards the opposition half. Those two would shake our lot up.

One of the most noticeable features of Saturday's game was Bowyer frequently put out instructions to individual players. We sit 20-30 feet from the technical area. Many times the player didn't respond at all and on at least two occasions players turned to listen and then turned away. Cairney in particular did this; Bowyer was shouting instruction at him and after a few moments stared straight through the manager and turned away.

Anyone else noticed GB's habit of turning away from the pitch and looking up towards the directors' box?

[ABBEY]

I see him looking at the floor scraping away like he has some spuggy stuck to his shoe ,head bowed and hands in pockets.

[47er]

I did answer the question but clearly you didnt like the answer cos it doesn't suit your agenda.

Sorry, but that is either an outright lie or you have no concept of the meaning of language. You don't even address the question but simply drone on with all the stuff you have posted before. And this is what you always do when faced with a curly question.

As for my agenda, I don't have one other than wanting the best for Blackburn Rovers so don't try getting out of it by trying to smear me.

[T J Hooker]

McCarthy has been at Ipswich 3 years now after this season. But hasn't been sack there. The owner had keep faith him and trust.

This season he has had Ipswich in the top 6. Might get them promote this season.

He has had to sell key player like Cresswell and cut the wage bill and still keep them in the hunt for promotion.

Surely Bowyer is doing a similar type of job to McCarthy.

Only a lot shiter

[perthblue02]

As I sat watching one of the most miserable performances in a long, long time pretty much the same thoughts went through my mind.

Given everything that has and continues to happen at Ewood I find it hard to imagine quality managerial or coaching staff and players will be attracted in the summer.

I longed for watching Nicky Reid plough through the mud or Simon Barker crafting a ball towards the opposition half. Those two would shake our lot up.

One of the most noticeable features of Saturday's game was Bowyer frequently put out instructions to individual players. We sit 20-30 feet from the technical area. Many times the player didn't respond at all and on at least two occasions players turned to listen and then turned away. Cairney in particular did this; Bowyer was shouting instruction at him and after a few moments stared straight through the manager and turned away.

Anyone else noticed GB's habit of turning away from the pitch and looking up towards the directors' box?

Maybe he's looking up at Degsy waiting for the thumbs up that one of his buddies as negotiated a price with any club for one of Bowyers chicklings , after all that is what Venky's Ewood Park hatchery is all about these days, then he can bemoan having to sell players whilst trying to keep up with big spending Footballing giants like Bournemouth in his Saturday Evening broadcast to Pune

[Rover_Shaun]

Sorry, but that is either an outright lie or you have no concept of the meaning of language. You don't even address the question but simply drone on with all the stuff you have posted before. And this is what you always do when faced with a curly question.

As for my agenda, I don't have one other than wanting the best for Blackburn Rovers so don't try getting out of it by trying to smear me.

What was the question?

[den]

What was the question?

http://www.brfcc.com/mb/index.php/topic/30364-gary-bowyer-discussion/?p=1519576

Do you want promotion - if not, why not?

What evidence have you seen to suggest that he can get us there?

[onlyonejackwalker]

I've been to every home game and it's got worse match on match. I arrive now and watch the clock till it mercifully gets to 90 mins and I can think about going home. It's boring and if I can see what's wrong then why can't the guy who is paid to do the job see what's wrong and put it right? It's mad. I can't justify a season ticket next year. I'd rather go away and choose games where I can visit places I haven't been and make a bit of a holiday of it.

My view also. Nowadays, I'm not bothered if I arrive late, or if I leave early to beat the car park traffic (all 50 of them). In fact its a blessing a lot of the time. Boring, boring, boring, rubbish with no pride or soul and little imagination, performed by people who simply do not care as much as they should. It's been dull as dishwater at home ever since Allardyce was potted. Sitting alone in total silence amongst thousands of empty seats is a pretty souless experience, hard to imagine repreating year in, year out.

Not that the football under SA was 'complete' but at least we worked to a strategy and plan, cared about our own goal and the defence, had players who were fit and gave their all, had some star dust sprinkled about to call upon and perhaps most importantly knowledegable football folk making key decisions for the betterment of the club, not any particular individual. With 20+ thousand turning up to support because they believed in the club and its agenda and actually enjoyed the product available to them.

It has been far worse than just poor quality football this last 3 / 4 years, It has been spineless, self-serving, undignified, unenjoyable, without class and left a sour taste in the mouth of genuine fans for way too long now. Like many I hoped for different under Bowyer, at least in terms of an identifiable plan and strategy. Sickening to now observe similar spin and hear of player values increasing, penalty box entries, how much others have supposedly spent, blah blah blah whilst still bored stiff conceeding as many goals as we score.

It's not even up for debate anymore that Bowyer is not good enough. Now it's back to sticking with him cos the alternative might be worse.

The answer for 12 months has been to change manager. Certain people will not agree until we are in the bottom 3. Even then FFP and money will be an excuse for some.

Correct, He may or may not have deserved his chance, but at the time I was content for him to have a go. I quickly changed my mind in his first full season as he failed to address our goalkeeper and defence, all and sundry found it easy to score against us and the season was over after three months bar the late rally as our gargantuan squad kicked in..

Rhodes is the best finisher in the league but the team isn't set up for him most of the time. Gestede and Rhodes don't work as partnership and that's is clear to see for me. Gestede and King Partnership look good against Stoke.

for me, we lack pace upfront when King isn't in the team. I watched Bournemouth yesterday on TV before going to Ewood Park, I was very impressed with the pace and work hard of their striker Wilson. I thought that what we lacked in our team.

this summer, we are going to have to reshape the forward department this summer when I expect Gestede, King will leave and maybe Rhodes too. we need pacey forward/target man strikers in this summer but Bowyer need to decide what is the best formation with the players we got and developing a playing style. whether it a rigid 4-4-2 formation direct style, or 4-2-3-1 passing style or counter attacking style.

Rhodes may well be the best finisher in the league, but it is all he is best at. Rarely seen such an accomplished finisher who is so hopeless in general play.

Lack pace when King doesn't play? You don't say Chaddy? Glad you have cottoned on at last. Might be something to do with the best finisher you mentioned above. Like it or not, pace upfront is vital and our play is constantly stymied by not having any. Hard to tell how good some of our midfieldrs are sometimes as there is rarely anyone showing, more than one option and never an out ball over the top to relieve pressure, condense play and improve our field position. Constantly playing in to feet is ridiculous easy to mark, espeoially when the striker is as slow and weak as Jordan in those circumstances. All defenders hate being turned to face their own goal as we saw recently numerous times with King playing against PL quality defenders and systems.

[Gav]

Sorry, but that is either an outright lie or you have no concept of the meaning of language. You don't even address the question but simply drone on with all the stuff you have posted before. And this is what you always do when faced with a curly question.

As for my agenda, I don't have one other than wanting the best for Blackburn Rovers so don't try getting out of it by trying to smear me.

Give over 47er, he's answered the question several times, you're just ignoring it.

[47er]

What was the question?

He answered "Yes I do want promotion" but that wasn't the question of Den's that I raised with Chaddy, as he knows full well.

Its like wrestling with an eel.

Give over 47er, he's answered the question several times, you're just ignoring it.

Utter bullshlt Gav, see above.

[den]

Give over 47er, he's answered the question several times, you're just ignoring it.

Only Parson has even tried to answer both questions Gav and the only thing he could come up with is "a few games in the last three or four months, that we didn't win, that we deserved something from" and "signed a few decent freebies".

It's dead easy.

Yes

None.