Is this because they don't sell coke on draught??

With respect Brownie is that not our aim as well like any Football club - if not what is the point? Personally, my feeling is that you go out to win every game whoever you are - and even more so now given the amount these people get paid - but then again that's one of the major problems of Football nowadays.

You mean you actually thought he was whilst he was here Philipl?? Sort of sheds some light on what alot of us where saying at the time and pours cold water on those that believed he was taking it seriously.

Maybe because of the amount of new grounds popping up around the country and the all seater stadia, people thought it was for the better and that it was the law and was expressed as such. However, over time this has proved to be maybe safer but has near as damnnit nullified the enjoyment and atmosphere at games. My beef is not about whether the away fans are doing it or not as is happens to home fans when we are away - its the way the whole issue is handled in football and as with others, possibly now giving the choice for people to stand by way of a suitable arrangement.

If that's what is needed then yes - but remember not every ground had fences and some grounds including ours still have perimeters. What if the fences were so high they impeded an escape in the event of a crush? That's why they had emergency gates - normally at each end and inthe middle areas - but why would they be made so high - and if all things considered they would not be as cramped as they used to be as some grounds now have larger capacity and there would more than likely be a 3-1 ratio in favour of the seats. In addition I am positive that the advance in technology and attitutude towards the treatment of fans would go someway into solving this. However, how does this make any difference to there being a crush in the seating areas and the seats impeding an escape in a supposed similar situation.

If that's what is needed then yes - but remember not every ground had fences and some grounds including ours still have perimeters.

Erm... TB yes there is - you either sit or don't buy a ticket otherwise you run the risk of being ejected for standing as there is no area for you to have the option to chose to go and stand in. Yes it is my choice to break the rules, as no doubt it is about many others due to the nature of the game and the natural action of many who go to watch games. Question for you - Do you just sit in your seat when we score?- If not then you are choosing to break the rules as well

Alternatively, I want to enjoy it and rant and rave as and when and not resort to arguing with somebody if they are standing up and interfering with my line of view. It is selfish attitudes such as yours that are causing the problems. I pay what I consider alot of money to sit down and watch a football match and I do not want someone in front of me blocking my vision. The rules are that you must sit down. If you don't like it, stay at home. What you reading ffs numbnuts?? and not resort to arguing with somebody if they CHOOSE to sit because I am interfering with their line of view or comfort. As I have said I do not want to end up arguing with somebody over me standing. I am not ignorant to the fact that some people want to sit and If requested a I will sit down without issue - normally especially at away games I even ask before I sit down if anybody has any objection to me standing. Now in my world, this is very respectful and undertstanding and is normally accepted - but what pisses me of is the likes of people with this sort of comment that give rise to arguments occuring - so its it any wonder some people act the way they do Jim? Yet again it is your choice to sit, which the likes of me have to respect- yet we do not have the choice to stand which I find prejudice against those that want to. I pay alot of money for my tickets and would like the choice to stand if I want to hence my feelings on this issue. Throwing it back at you - pay your money to SKY and SIT at home in your cosy armchair. What people are asking for is choice without having to resort to petty arguments - has this embedded into your greying matter yet?? BTW Jim- will be interesting to see you rave in your seat with about 1ft leg space when we next score (?**) Football - don't you just love it?

Beat me to it StuWilky Tris/John/Brownie - This is not just as a result of Saturday and has been bubbling for a while and not just at our club. The situation re standing is causing problems and driving fans away (especially at our club) and I find this relevant to the clubs overall sitaution re finances and fans etc... Yes what is happening one the pitch is not helping and people are venting their anger in other directions, and in all respect our club and the game against Liverpool could be the catalyst for a major incident (due to the ko time/ bad feelings/ scrap performances /last seasons fixture**etc) that is surely going to happen at a football ground soon. As I have said to Den from what I saw on Saturday, it all really started with the actions and attitude of the stewards, which as mentioned previously has been going on for a while and not just this season. As Stuwilky says fans are becoming very disillusioned with Football and issues like these do not help - especially when you do not have a CHOICE to stand and its all interlinked IMO. I had similar ideas re contacting the club due to the goings on in my personal life recently have been unable to generate any time to the cause and StuWilky has come up on the rails and got the ball rolling. I also wish the vocal atmosphere generated on Saturday could be raised to support the players on the pitch rather than the goings on off it, but most if not all came from those standing up and not the moaners sitting down. Therefore if we could stand to generate this type of Atmosphere towards the players on the pitch we might start to see things turn but then we have a catch 22 - do we stand and risk getting arrested or sit down and stay stum, bored to death and thinking about why do I bother. I for one do not want the morgue-like atmosphere's we have at football grounds now - I want to enjoy it and rant and rave as and when and not resort to arguing with somebody if they CHOOSE to sit because I am interfering with their line of view or comfort. On a serious nature - if the debacle of anti standing continues I will be making a major decision on whether I will be re-newing my Season ticket - in fact on whether I want to watch football in the morgues anymore (like OT where it is called the 'Theatre of (wet) Dreams' because everbody is asleep). Luckily at the moment I stand (sit) in an area where the majority also like to stand.

With all respect Den IMO this interlinked and was the basis of the problem -including what was happening on the pitch.

Did you sit down on the terraces then Jim?? I prefer to stand so in answer to your points No - otherwise you'll get thrown out for going to your seat eg how far do you take it? Is this not prejudice against the choice of a standing fan? I don't smoke I don't litter the streets (one of my pet hates as well) except if you include my body for when I've over indulged the Guinness Mmm... speeding - guilty sorry - I'll give you that one - but would also include those in this that drive too slow and haven't got a friggin clue what the lanes are for on the Motoways and what the rules are at a roundabout any more ?

Will also be interesting to see what you get if you go to the snackl bar and ask for a coke at half time.

Not when he first started out USA

Glenn stop beiing so reasoned in your replies people might start to listen Just one point which is a double edged sword really - to get everybody involved and get the mantra going to effect, it normally has to start with people standing up otherwise it will not gather momentum thus leading to a issue akin to Saturday on possibly a far greater scale and back to square one and possibly consequences far worse. My answer - nobody go to their seats and just stand on the concourse wishing you had a beer as you certainly won't be able to get served at the two manned bar, therefore creating a far more dangerous situation than that of people standing in their seats. Personally I feel the horse has already bolted - and listening to people already the Season Ticket sales next season will tell the tale.

"I promise our supporters it will stop. They have my word!" Now where have we heard similar before?

Mmmmm.............. You mean like Duff was USA? Regardless of what's what - we have left footed left sided players so lets start using them.

Maybe those willing to pay the extotionate amount for the ticket will be willing to pay for a 'line' to ease the pain of certain defeat and line the players (Chelski) noses even more. 'Can we take a snuff for you...?' Can we take a snuff for you...?'

As they say Tris cheap and cheerful No doubt you read the reviews -and he did say cheapest

Would be interesting to hear what the supposed 'public order offences' where as from what I can see these where only brought on by the attitude of the stewards and the way they acted to people standing and not those having ago at the people in the boxes. As a result the Police pobably had to make an arrests but the question has to be asked whether they where they due to the imcompetence of the Stewards being able to handle the situation?

PEARL CONTINENTAL This is the cheapest I saw that's relatively central

Beam up a couple of messages Scotty

Now that's more like it SS some info at last - how come you got to go to the meeting? Glenn I think we all appreciate what you can and can't say and I know you do alot to get the feelings of the fans across maybe a watered down version of meetings may be allowed to be 'published' on here? Coming back to the meeting SS - was the general feeling of its in Black 'n White so that's that or have the club got measures to contest it ( within reason of course) especially on the viewpoint of the detrimental effect this is having on our club as we are not alone in this matter ? Is the club aware of the Standing Up Campaign? As StuWilky has posted he has had no feedback from the club yet has has followed an exceptable procedure (he beat me to it and we have spoken on e-mail). This is my gripe with football at the moment for all clubs and why I see the 'Standing Up Campaign' as a major medium for these laws to be reviewed. Personally, if I receive a letter for standing up it will promptly be sent back with an accompanying letter and my Season ticket - hope the club realise this as my feelings are not alone - in fact does any club really understand the general feelings on this matter amongst the fans up and down the country?

Glenn you know me and I think I have discussed this with you previously , but this is what irks alot of fans as nothing is ever heard of what is achieved at/from these meetings. Why not - why is it all top secret yet is supposed to be a FANS forum - you know one of those things with the fans for the fans. Even you have had a dig at the club re the club charter so something is either as people saying are saying just falling on 'deaf ears' and the club just doesn't give a hoot about the fans or as usual the club is so slow at dealing with things and useless at letting the fans know about issues important to them. Personally I don't give a damn about what the fans do in the boxes , contributes to the atmosphere in a way IMO , but what I object to is the way our inept stewards deal with situations (Police tend to be ok) and the Club/fan relationship at the moment and our dwindling numbers. An issue maybe for the next top secret meeting (synchronise those watches) is the situation of the dwindling numbers ( if it hasn't been discussed already) and the way football is going against the vocal partisan fan - which is affecting our club more than most so should be taken very very seriously.

As are panic buys and persisting with players who are plainly crap!! We already know that certain players are not upto the job, so as we can't go out and buy anything making use of what we do have to hand makes sense - at the moment we have nothing to lose - do believe Spurs where in a similar sort of position with Ledley King - and look at how he has progressed now. Not a case of throwing everybody in at once but there comes a point where they have to be given a chance to achieve the supposed potential - and in our situation for some of our younger ones now is the time.

I questioned one of the police on my way to confront the Stewards who said he didn't know much just that you had to be there ?? whatever that meant and things had been taken in hand to address what had happened including the boxes. As I have mentioned on another thread, I wasn't the only one who was questioning the Police and officials on Saturday but to me this highlights the feeling within the game with regard to the choice of being able to stand - see the 'Standing Up Campaign' thread Incidents as such as Saturday are not unique to our club - it is happening at almost every ground ( would just appear our club is totally useless at dealing with it) and don't understand the feelings of us as Fans. I have also questioned the purpose of the Fans Forum on this MB previously and agree entirley with Morph in saying its just a whim for the club. I am a Pro stander but understand the club has to be shown to be trying to enforce the rules - however they have the power to take things forward to question the moral of these rules and the way they are enforced along with all the other clubs. We should have the choice to stand and if this means signing a declaration of some kind they so be it - at least it will be a choice. If something is not sorted soon, something far greater than what was happening on Saturday will happen which will then question the safety on seating - might not be at Ewood but could well be the catalyst of the Liverpool game if things are not going well on the pitch. There where alot of disgruntled fans on Saturday - lose them at your peril Rovers