In any average job, I'd agree. But in a job where a significant chunk of your fandom/custom is negatively targeted by what is said, there was little alternative imo. For context his comments were about 20% of the English population. Imagine the uproar if he'd negatively addressed Muslims (less than 5% of the English population). That's also bearing in mind that religion is a choice, while disability isn't. I do have to admit it's an area I'm biased about, mind.

I don't think there's been any supression of freedom of speech on this thread, rather there has been quite a good, lively discussion. Glenn is perfectly entitled to express his views as strongly as he likes, just as I am to contradict them as strongly as I like, and all areas inbetween. However, there are certain jobs where one's relationship with the public DO dictate just what you can publicly say bevause of the nature of the job. Imagine if there had been an aspiring English disabled footballer breaking through at the time. If one were to change what he said so that it concerned black people, how do you think the Ferdinands, Cole, Ince, Palmer, Collymore, James, Dublin (any others?) would have felt about playing under such a manager? The freedom to offend is extremely important, but surely one must take with that the freedom to criticise and be condemned.

The bit I left not bold, I can't disagree with, but I've no idea why you present it as wrong. The bit in bold just shows that you are so determined to argue that you create them where they are not. I don't think we'll get much further, but I've enjoyed this conversation. Broken up a dull day. Best keep on topic: Get well Glenn, you pillock.

1. You said 'I know more about these faiths than you'. I took that as playing a false trump card, especially as you presume to know so much more than me based on not much, leading me to... 2. I know enough about those faiths to know they are as daft as the Abrahamic religions, having covered them throughout my GCSEs, A levels, and my time teaching about them. I was skipping the 'knowledge' part because that bit is boring and we both 'know' them, hence nothing to debate. I moved on to the criticism part because that is where debate is to be had. This was also because I know first hand how those who follow those faiths treat disabled people in their everyday life in my time travelling through Asia several years ago (ie: they treat them like shit, because they 'were bad in a past life'). 3. Science IS knowledge. As far as we know, there is no such concept as afterlife or pre-life or whatever. What I won't do is presume there is based on no evidence. Although I will admit that you are generally correct in this part, assuming that everything science tells us is false based on layman intuition is baffling. If that's not what you're doing, then the fact you're even arguing with me is even more baffling. 4. Fair enough. 5. It's offensive because it is assumes I am or was a bad person and deserve my disability. It's as offensive as the concept of heaven and hell, or the idea that a rape victim deserves it for wearing a short skirt. It is offensive because it places blame on the sufferer and doesn't acknowledge the effect such views can have on people (which I covered in the post you were quite dismissive of).

You played the 'I'm more intelligent than you' card and you think I'M arrogant? We've been discussing these ideas on here all day. Nobody has said he cannot believe what he believes, only that he (and the idea) deserves criticism. I'm not 'programmed' in any such way, I just choose science over fiction. I reserve my own right to think he's a pillock for believing without evidence that being deaf is my fault. You say he meant no malice, but a chosen belief like that, based on comes from a lack of empathy at best and malice at worst. If I had come on and said I believed he deserved to be ill for his comments and the effect they had, you'd surely find that abhorrent rather than excuse them? And that would be a claim based on things that HAVE happened in THIS life, rather than the utter BS of 'past life sins'.

Surely luck is happenstance, while karma is about decency in ones actions? The idea that I just happen to be deaf is fine. The idea that I'm being punished amd deserve to be deaf for something nobody can possibly know about IS offensive. For someone with an A-level in RE (or is it Ethics and Philosophy now?), you seem to have little emotional intelligence.

When you are using that knowledge of those faiths to excuse (or possibly even justify, but benefit of the doubt and all that) a man's comments that disabled people deserve it, yes. You don't particularly appear to have critiqued the the concept of karma for someone who knows so much. Knowing about faith doesn't stop you from being ignorant about disability. Edit- Do1995 said it better.

If you can't see how it's disrespectful to so publicly blame millions of people for having their disability based on whimsy, that seems like a pretty bad trait to carry. With regards your 'actual point', the post I quoted by you stated that I should be able to see through media manipulation of his views, while ignoring entirely the effect that the views themselves had on me (and many other disabled children). In your haste to excuse Hoddle, I fear you're showing yourself to be as ignorant as him. Or the other option I mentioned. Pity.

Isn't the Sea (rather than lake) of Tranquility on the Moon? Email NASA, see if you can hitch a ride

Again, objectively, you're probably right. But growing up deaf in Britain was pretty crap for me and with all my various negative experiences as a child that stemmed from being deaf, it's hard to forgive the people who played a part in it. The usual bullying, I knew how to deal with, but being rejected for not fitting in (by hearing kids) and not being deaf enough (deaf kids, this is STILL a thing with some deaf adults - you're not deaf unless you sign) took its toll. For a few years, I had an identity crisis of sorts, I suppose. But when someone you admire, and who has some authority in your young mind (the England team manager ffs) says that on TV, it hurts. The attitude that being deaf was my fault (leaving Glenn's comments alone for a moment) still goes on today. Quite often, my first interaction with a customer to whom my back happens to be turned is (ironically enough) 'Oi, don't just ignore me!' That belief (let alone saying it) of karma or paying for past sins only works in this life, in the same way hell is a threat and heaven is a reward. If you believe in past lives, then karma doesn't come from a culture of compassion, it comes from a culture of ignorance and/or blame at best, and being downright tosser at worst. Whichever one Glenn was (ignorant or a tosser) he had a small but contributing effect on my life with an 'invisible disability'. Rightly or wrongly (I'd even PREFER not to feel how I feel about it), I will hold that against him whether others choose to or not, and I'll do so until I feel comfortable enough to let go. As people still often treat the disabled like lepers or benefit scroungers (I've never claimed, believing there are other 'more disabled' people than me who need it more), I will fight against those views for as long as I'm able until society is ACTUALLY compassionate. Wow that was a bit of a loaded post, apologies for ranting.

Of course, I should've been expected to put his comments into those contexts as a 7 year old. Silly me. Jesus wept. I actually even agree with most of that post from an objective POV, but knowing how I felt in that moment (bearing in mind how difficult it already is to grow up deaf in Britain. Thankfully, NDCS and Action on Hearing Loss are putting a lot of things right) means I won't forgive those comments. The 'compassionate oriental cultures' bit just shows you don't particularly know much about how the disabled are treated in that part of the world. Having experienced pushing and shoving just for having hearing aids in, and seeing the physically disabled left to beg in the street and be spat on and beaten, they make this Conservative government look like a 5* residential home. They're definitely compassionate to anyone who deserves it for being well behaved in a past life though.

At the time, yes! However, I think growing up Catholic is why I'm now atheist ?

Don't get me wrong, I genuinely hope he's alright. I'm not one to wish ill on anyone. I can also understand people thinking that I'm perhaps unfair in holding against him what was a clumsy statement. But I remember exactly how I felt in that moment as a 7yo deaf catholic child ('sins' being a very loaded word, and ironically enough my Confirmation was coming up), and as far as I'm aware he hasn't done anything to amend it. Perhaps by simply holding his hands up or making a donation to a disability charity.

Hope he's alright. Still a prick though.

Was that the game where Ray Wilkins was stunned into silence by Kean's post-match interview?

Corners are our best friend today!

I'd offer him til 2021 with a remit to get us promoted in that time. From everything I've read and heard of the guy since he got here, I believe TM considers Rovers his personal project. I'm not saying we'll get a dynasty akin to the greats like Clough or Fergie, but I get the feeling he wants to REALLY drive us forward into the PL and possibly Europe. Everything he says is geared towards progress imo.

Looking forward to seeing either of Poulter or Sergio as captains in future. Rose must be cracking on a bit too, but has at least one more comp in him.

I don't like comparing MMA with WWE but (for the sake of argument) without fans, the sport doesn't exist. So MMA fighters certainly DO owe the fans a hell of a lot for their money. As you say, mind, the same goes for all sports to varying degrees and all are essentially a form of escapism. I think McGregor goes for the kind of cheap shots (outside the octagon) that Ali would never have touched. I think comparing him to Mayweather would be accurate, both a bit loutish, gobby, and utter pillocks. Personally think the 'brawl' was straight out of the WWE 'we need a rematch' playbook.

Morons on fb comparing McGregor to Muhammad Ali! Ali was far better in his own sport, transcended it completely, was far more humble, and has a lasting legacy! McGregor is a flash in the pan, and clearly a prick.

Correct. Number of times Dack was spotted in OUR half searching for the ball was ridiculous. Better 2nd half, but need to keep going.

Same personnel, amended formation. We need to emphasise attack, so I would allow Bennett and Rothwell to roam forward.

I wasn't completely happy with tgat joke either. Amended.

Team: Bolton Wanderers. Based in: Horwich. Stadium: Freezing. Nickname: Pig's feet. Manager: Michael Parkinson. Fans: Mental Famous fans: Stone Cold Steve Austin and those midgets off Phoenix Nights. So, fresh off a sound beating by the Blades, we enter the freezing cold home of Horwich Wanderers; a team who claim Utd and Rovers among their closest rivals, while neither of those teams could give a toss. Not only is the ground shaped like a begging bowl suspended from giant chopsticks, they are genuinely so skint that fans are charged £30 to sit and freeze. At least, that's the excuse they give for the astonishing silence in a ground that is more lively when there's no footy on, thanks to the attached Middlebrook Retail Park. Founded in 1874 as Christ Church FC, the decision was made to quickly move the club from New Zealand to the arsehole between the two cheeks of Lancashire and Manchester. A move that would go on to disappoint Bolton-based football fans for 144 years, knowing that better, more handsome, more successful, teams surrounded them. They, like us, were founder members of the Football League in 1888 and, unlike us, have the dubious honour of spending more years in the top flight without winning it than any other club. Bolton HAVE, however, won three FA Cups (but not 3-in-a-row like us), and four in total (we have six, so nya nya nya)! 1935-1964 saw an uninterrupted stay in the top flight – regarded by fans as a golden era – spearheaded in the 1950s by the legendary Nat Lofthouse. The years of the Second World War saw most of the Wanderers' playing staff see action on the front, a rare occurrence within elite football, as top sportsmen were generally assigned to physical training assignments, away from enemy fire. However, 15 Bolton professionals, led by their captain Harry Goslin, volunteered for active service in 1939, and were enlisted in the 53rd Bolton Artillery regiment. By the end of the war, 32 of the 35 pre-war professionals saw action in the British forces. The sole fatality was Goslin, who had by then risen to the rank of Lieutenant and was killed by shrapnel on the Italian front shortly before Christmas 1943. 53rd Bolton Artillery took part in the Battle of Dunkirk and also served in the campaigns of Egypt, Iraq and Italy. Remarkably, a number of these soldiers managed to carry on playing the game in these theatres of war, forming a 'British X1' to take on various scratch teams assembled by, among others, King Farouk of Egypt in Cairo and Polish forces in Baghdad. The club spent a season in the Fourth Division in 1987-88 before regaining top-flight status in 1995 (wow that was quick!) and qualifying for the UEFA Cup twice, hoofing their way to the last 32 in 2005–06 and the last 16 in 2007–08. The club has had plenty of ups and downs lately, from future England gaffers to pingpong and donut PE teachers, from an absolute Gentleman in Eddie Davies to batshit consortiums. For all the mockery they get from us, there can be no doubt that they are a club comparable to ourselves on a smaller scale... And forever in our shadow may they remain! In common: Adam Armstrong, Matt Jansen, Kevin Davies, Sam Allardyce, that bastard Coyle, and others I'm too lazy to look up. Head 2 Head: Rovers 62 Draw 38 Bolton 70 I coaxed a Bolton fan with his head screwed on from his cave (he's going out with a fellow Rover, so not yet a lost cause) and asked a few Qs: 1. How have your team fared so far this season? Have you a particular style of play and is it working? We have fared reasonably well so far. I was pleasantly surprised by our start (10 points from first 4) but we have stuttered through September. The win against Derby was a big confidence boost and an important win given a tough week of fixtures (we are away at Stoke before we play you). Whilst September has been disappointing after the start, I would definitely have taken 15 points from the first 10 games. It was the start of December before we had that many last time around so we are definitely better placed this season. Our style tends to be to play long balls out from the back towards Josh Magennis and hope to win second balls, we like to sit in deep and hit on the break where possible, it seems to be working to an extent, particularly if we score first, however we tend to struggle when we concede first. I saw a statistic recently which was something like 8 of our last 10 wins have been 1-0 and I think the other 2 were only by 1 goal. 2. Are events behind the scenes affecting how you view the club, in light of being an Eddie Davies Will away from administration? Not particularly but it can't have been good for any of the players, management or non-football staff to have the possible burden of administration hanging over them. I was certainly saddened to read about this a few weeks ago and it seemed such a shame after such a positive start that administration appeared to be a genuine possibility. We seem to have got through that particular crisis for now though and attention can return to football. 3. Who are your most dangerous players? Which are your weak spots? The wide men, obviously everyone has heard of Sammy Ameobi but he is injured at the moment. Craig Noone has come into the team this season and works very hard but sometimes the end product lets him down. He scored the winner against Derby and has set up a few goals earlier in the season. Erhun Oztumer has come in from Walsall and has impressed in spells and was known to score wonder goals during his time in the Midlands. Hopefully he can produce one on Saturday evening! Josh Magennis has added a physical threat to our front line which was sorely missing in the second half of last season after we sold Gary Madine to Cardiff. One of our better players, albeit not necessarily dangerous, has been Pawel Olkowski who plays at right back. Based on his early performances I would say he could be the best right back in the division, certainly the best I have watched this season. In terms of weak spots, left back has been a bit of a problem area this season. Our first choice left back last year was on loan from Everton and subsequently went on loan to Wigan. We have replaced him with Jonathan Grounds who has been a bit of a slow starter but seems to be finding his feet now and looking a bit more comfortable. 4. Anyone you fear in the Rovers side? I don't think so. Tony Mowbray appears to have been given significant backing in the transfer window by the Venky's and seems to be signing younger players with a point to prove and this seems to have worked very well for him over the last 12 months or so. Bradley Dack seems key to everything good that you do so he is obviously a big threat and Adam Armstrong is bound to return and score after struggling here in the early part of last season. One of my bigger concerns would be giving away silly free kicks around the penalty area given Charlie Mulgrew's multiple goals over recent seasons, if he makes it that is. One player at Blackburn I have always rated is Derrick Williams but he doesn't seem to be playing as much as I would have expected this season. 5. How is the imposter (Lowe) getting on? Jason Lowe has really impressed me so far and had probably his best game in a white shirt against Derby, cutting out multiple attacks and preventing the likes of Mason Mount from getting too many chances to thread balls through the middle. It's surprising how it didn't work out for him at Birmingham after leaving Rovers but so far he has certainly improved our midfield and offers vital cover for the back four to allow the more creative players the freedom to express themselves. 6. Any unusual or obscure trivia about your club? We are one of only 3 (I think) that Sergio Aguero hasn't scored against in the Premier League for Manchester City. In fact, his misfortune with Bolton extends further back to 2008 whilst he was at Atletico Madrid and got sent off at the Reebok (as it was then) in the uefa cup, those were the days... 7. Finally, what do you reckon the score will be? I would think it will be a fairly tight game as they have tended to be over the years. I expect both teams to score with Bolton to nick it late on to win 2-1. Thanks to Andrew for some genuine insight into the mind of a Bolton fan (lol, Jason Lowe actually playing football). I reckon 1-1 tbh, certainly after the Sheff Utd Shitshow. Nevertheless, COYB!!

Change to 434: Raya Lenihan Rodwell Mulgrew Bennett Evans Reed Bell Dack Graham Brereton Although, I seem to recall Reed mentioning he'd been playing wide right, and I know many prefer Bennett in cm. I'd be ok with that too.