22 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Dack was a stroke of inspiration there's no doubt about that, fairly left field and by far the best signing of the lot all things considered.

My argument would be, if you're given the funding to bring in around, I don't know forty or fifty players over five years either permanently or on loan, you'd expect a few belters as an absolute minimum and under a genuinely astute manager, a lot more than that.

I think we have to take things like size of fee/importance of player into account when judging his transfer record. Nobody was bothered with Sparky signing the Berners, Vogels and Rigters of this world because because when we needed to spend the budget on a new striker, he always delivered in spades.

This actually makes it a tricky task to judge Mowbray's record. There are some players who were brought as (relatively) low cost loans, but need to be judged as pretty important failures because they filled important roles and didn't cut the mustard (e.g. Walton, Douglas). Others have eventually paid dividends, but only in time and there's an argument that the eventual Brilliant success of Ayala and Brereton has come 12 months too late for a promotion push. So even looking at Brereton as an investment which has paid off, it's not as simple as just saying that he's been a great signing because of the time that we've needed to wait for him to get to that level.

At the same time, trying to take everything together, I really don't think that Mowbray's transfer record is something to hold against him. Quite the opposite actually. There are the obvious examples of Dack, Armstrong, Kaminski et al, but there are plenty of others that you'd have as successes given either how much we paid, or what we needed at a certain point in time. Whilst we wouldn't take any of them now, the likes of Smallwood, P. Downing, Samuel, Nuttall, Payne & Antonsson all played significant roles in getting us up first time and were signed for buttons. More recently, there have been others who were low-risk signings who improved us whilst admittedly not doing it consistently enough to be classed as a Dack/Armstrong level success (e.g. Holtby, Rothwell, 1st. season S. Downing). A handful of these low-risk signings haven't worked out, for whatever reason, but the success of Dolan should eventually make up for a dozen Sam Harts. 

Ultimately, I think the case against Mowbray as manager begins and ends with his ability to get the most out of the players available to him. The squad we had last year was, according to plenty on here (myself included) was good enough to finish in the top 6 - so the issue for me isn't really recruitment, even if it's that is bit of a complex picture. The squad was also made up of plenty of young players & academy graduates, so neither is the issue that Mowbray doesn't trust youth as others have suggested elsewhere. For me it just boils down to not getting the results that we should get consistently enough, most else is just noise. 

17 hours ago, Lucimo said:

Hibs 3 1 up at Rangers. Steve Kean will probably claim its his influence the odious little cretin. 

All those double sessions he put in with Martin Boyle paying dividends. 

Collectors item goal for Jason Lowe today too. 

On 17/11/2021 at 22:36, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Anybody else watch the Stockport v Bolton game tonight ? What a fantastic match, Stockport 2-0 down after 5 minutes ended up winning 5-3 after extra time. That’s what I call an FA Cup tie !

Only watched the second half onwards, but what a game. Seemed to me that Bolton are still some way away from being a team that could challenge for promotion in that league too. 

Genuinely wonder if the £5 million is a typo, missing a 1. It just seems like such a bizarre figure for a player of his age and goal record who has effectively 18 months left to run on his contract. 

14 minutes ago, arbitro said:

The Sheffield match was the best we have played this season, that is indisputable. We looked solid defensively, probably more so than any other time this season. I agree Ayala has been good this season but dropping Wharton sends out the wrong message to the players and fans. However as I said in my earlier post I expect there to be changes.

There's a good case to keep Wharton in the team, definitely. Very impressive considering the time he's spent away, even though you could say he could've dealt with their goal better. 

Don't get me wrong, I think there's a pretty good case to keep the whole XI the same (and I hope we mostly do) but I wouldn't go overboard with how solid we looked, personally. I think we were great overall, and should have scored more than three, but at the same time our goal lived a bit of a charmed life to keep them down to just the one. This after the Fulham game, I think this is one of those cases where one or two changes to a winning side is warranted and not just Mowbray being Mowbray. 

2 hours ago, 47er said:

Dobing,Taylor,Eckersley,Clayton(of all people), Connelly, Coddington,Wilcox are a few Rovers players I've seen booed at some time or another.

We're a miserable set of bastards sometimes I admit( not uniquely) ! But Brereton has had it easy!!

It's been covered a few different times on the thread, but I think it just shows how the scrutiny that modern footballers face is just a lot harder for them to avoid compared to previous generations.

Couldn't agree more that Brereton has only ever had support from the overwhelming majority fans inside the ground. I distinctly remember the very warm reaction to his first (I think?) goal for us when we beat Bolton towards the end of his first season. No sign whatsoever that the fans were giving him stick more than any other player at that point.

All that said - and this is an inescapable fact for every decent sized club, not just Rovers - the comments that are made about players after games are absolutely everywhere and some players get made targets. I don't think we can honestly say that Brereton (or more typically the expensive signing of Brereton as a stick to beat Mowbray with) wasn't a go-to target for people venting their spleen when things weren't going our way, and unlike 20 years ago this wasn't all done in the pub after the game where the player is none the wiser.

Only a (probably small) minority and happens at every club, but not easy for a young boy to deal with all the same. 

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

Anything but the same team and tactics from last time out will be wrong in my view.

But I don't believe that Mowbray can help himself so I expect changes. I also expect him talking up Bristol City who have taken a measly 7 points from a possible 24 at home this season in which they have only scored 6 goals.

Not defending Mowbray's tendency to over-tinker, but I think Ayala & Pickering coming back in is entirely fair enough. Edun (as much as I'm glad that we have him) found it tough going against Sheffield United and obviously was obviously a part of the Fulham drubbing. Dropping Wharton after a good return is harsh I suppose, but I think you'd really struggle to overestimate the importance of Ayala's contribution before he got injured. I suspect that he'll get his chance again sooner rather than later anyway, but in the meantime I'd look to make the very most we can out of Ayala before his next spell out.

3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

For me….

                    kaminski

Nyambe Lenihan Ayala Pickering

                   Trav Edun 

Poveda         Bucko     Dolan

                      BBD

Davenport unlucky and I wouldn’t be against him for Edun. Dolan has been arguably our best player this season (with Bucko) so returns. Poveda the best player on the park vs Sheff Utd and keeps his spot.

Subs - Pears, Wharton, Davenport, Johnson, Rothwell, Khadra, Butterworth 

**Wharton, Rothwell and Khadra to start at home vs Peterborough on Wednesday and then back to this team again away at Stoke on Saturday.

Exciting week!

I'd just about lean towards Davenport over Edun, but other than that I like that side. Khadra slightly unlucky after a goal and a good second half performance vs Sheffield United, but to be honest I thought they masked him having some pretty dreadful spells until that point. I like him, but his game intelligence/respect for possession needs a lot of work for me. 

It would be a big call leaving out Rothwell though. It was one thing to drop him last time out when we could've easily done the same to the whole starting XI, but generally this year he's been involved in a lot of what we've done well. If we go back to 433, I can see Mowbray going with:

                   Kaminski

Nyambe Lenihan Ayala Pickering

         Buckley  Travis    Rothwell 

Poveda                            Brereton-Diaz

                      Dolan

4 hours ago, desrover said:

I wonder if the Hibs fans really know about his past here! Anyone been on their forum?

Just had a look now. There's some awareness of the depth of feeling towards him, but not really any about why he's hated so much. Basically seem to think he was out of his depth at the time, but nothing else dodgy beyond his record on the pitch. 

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Still prefer to see Livingston and Morgan higher in the batting order than they are. 

Not a fan of Malan at 3 or Ali at 4 

Think England will win this by 15 runs due to our bowlers

.

Generally I think Malan gets a bit too much of a hard time, but I think we could rue him not really cashing in after eating up so many balls. Massive powerplay coming up

Runs on the board, but I'd say advantage NZ with them batting second in these conditions. 

This isn't in any way meant to be a dig at Jones - loved him as a player at Rovers and really want his next move to work out, but I never got the sense he was really emotionally connected enough for him to want to make this sort of 'homecoming' move at this stage. I'm sure Rovers was/is his team, but not in the same way that we are for the likes of Dunn, Wharton, Derbyshire etc.

I suppose beggars/choosers when it comes to his injury record, but even if he doesn't get a prem move, I can see a good level European club coming in and being able to offer more in wages than we could. 

Not sure if it has already been mentioned, but Aberdeen's Head of Recruitment (or equivalent) is Mowbray's younger brother. A quick scan on their message board a couple of weeks ago and it seems commonly accepted that he'll be here at some point, either in January or later on a free. Seems very likely that there's truth in it. 

2 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

Watched the game back. We were excellent going forward, really incisive and clever with the ball. Devastating on the counter attack. But also we gave away a lot of simple opportunities to the blades. We could have scored six or seven but they could have scored three or four..... If they'd put one of the many opps they had away it would have been a different picture. So a fun game, but need to sort the defence out.

Formation wise it was interesting. We actually played more of a 442 which I've not really seen since we had Rhodes and Gestede. Buckley was pushed right up alongside Brereton. Think the Blades back three really struggled with it. I would like us to persist with it as it worked so well. Buckleys slight frame makes people thinks he's a push over but he competes physically very well. He must have won the ball back half a dozen times.

Anyway not sure we can read much into the result, but good to see both Khadra and Poveda perform. Travis looks back to his best which is huge for us. Wharton was great in the air, but struggled when balls were played in behind on the channel.

To me the new crown jewels are Buckley, Dolan and Travis who are all top players at this level. I like Edun also who looks to me like a top young player in the making.

Next game we should play exactly the same XI and see if it was just Sheff Utd being poor.

Having seen it back, what did you make of them getting in behind the defence on our left as much as they seemed to? I moved seats to the Jack Walker, so couldn't really be sure whether it was Edun's fault or whether he needed more help from Khadra. I think Khadra is the one attacking player who could justifiably be replaced against Bristol City to be honest. A bit harsh maybe, given his goal and strong second half performance, but I thought his game awareness & respect for possession was really poor until his equaliser. Different sort of player, but I was far more impressed with Poveda.

Your assessment is pretty much in line with how I saw it - best game I've seen in I don't know how long but it's not sustainable to concede as many chances as we did. 

53 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Can't agree.  He has no aggression to his game.  His failure to even really try to stop crosses has led to goals against. At Huddersfield the right winger waltzed past him constantly.   If you think that is effective defending then God help us.  He can put a decent cross in on the run if he's in space but he won't run past full backs, no pace.

Sorry, poor buy and a waste of money.  I'd have put his fee and wages into a new deal for Rothwell or Diaz.

Didn't get to see the Hudds game, so I can't comment on that, but I don't remember any other time this season when his winger has really had the beating of him. There have been unimpressive moments here and there, but obviously a big improvement on what we've had (admittedly not that hard). Agree that he doesn't have much interest in taking players on, but that isn't such a big issue if his delivery is good enough when he gets space, and there are promising signs on that front. 

My main point though is that whilst he's only been fairly solid so far, I expect him to get a lot better given his age and where he has played so far, so ideally I'd want him and Edun both getting time on the pitch. Far, far too soon to be saying that he's a poor buy at this stage in my view. 

10 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Im not sure that Buckley would suit playing deeper in a midfield 2. His main attribute is winning the ball back higher up and he wouldnt provide the defensive protection in front of the back 4.

Also ideally we can get an upgrade on Gallagher, I think with his inability to bring others into play and link up, he wouldnt get the best out of Dack.

I suspect that Brereton may leave with Rothwell at the end of the season.

I think there's a chance that in a few years he could really excel in that position, dictating games. Agree that he's not at that point yet though. 

18 minutes ago, Butty said:

Edun looks a real quality player. He needs to start every game be it at left back or in midfield. 

Earlyish days, but I agree that he looks to have real potential. Being harsh for a second I thought he faded badly against Coventry, losing the ball in bad positions in the second half and maybe showing a bit of naivety and lack of discipline as a defender, but that aside I think he's looked very promising wherever he's played.

Long term I like the idea of having Pickering at left back and Edun in midfield. I think whilst Pickering hasn't been the marauding attacking full back that maybe a few of us expected, he's still been pretty effective in attack & defence and should only improve given his age. 

27 minutes ago, tonyoz said:

Don’t shoot the messenger but whoscored.com has Gallagher rated as the 6th best player in the Championship!!!

Whilst that is clearly a step too far, there's no escaping the fact that Gally's stats have been great this year, especially when you factor in that he's missed a reasonable amount of game time through injuries. I thought too that whoscored might not take things like chances missed into consideration, but to be fair it seems as though he's been very clinical this year (Derby aside!) with a goal for every 2.1 shots. To put in perspective, that's a lot better than Mitrovic & Brereton.

Don't get me wrong, we're still very much in 'not value for money' territory when you factor in previous seasons, but at the same time he's showing that he can be a real asset in this league if he plays in the right system. He definitely doesn't warrant being put in the same bracket of the Grabbis/Davies/Peacocks of this world who delivered absolutely nothing for their big fees. 

13 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

What’s the problem with Pickering ?

Calf problem, apparently. Sounds like he'll be out until after the international break. 

21 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Perhaps if he goes to a club that doesn't ask him to roam the entire right flank on his own every week he won't break down as much. 

That too, yes, but then again I don't think Rovers are different to most clubs these days in asking full backs to do as much attacking as they do defending. It's just a very physically demanding position and I suspect that Nyambe would've picked up his fair share of muscle injuries for 90% of teams at this level.

No Gallagher on Wednesday by the sounds of it. He's had his critics even this season but that's a massive loss to go along with our defensive absentees. 

Looks like we won't have too many other options to make any changes from:

                               TK

Buckley      Lenihan     Van Hecke    Edun

              Travis    Johnson    Rothwell

             Khadra     Dolan    Brereton

Johnson having only just returned will probably mean decent minutes for Davenport at some point before the international break too.

14 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Maybe if he goes to another club they might be able to keep him out of the treatment room. He’s missed his share of games in his time at Rovers.

Perhaps if he goes to a top-flight club where he he only plays once a week. If he moves to another Championship club I'd expect the same issues to follow him sadly, his body doesn't seem to be able to take 3 games a week over a sustained period without occasionally breaking down. 

Deceptively tricky game - they've been going very well for a club in crisis and the mood will be lifted with the positive signs on their takeover. Seems like they've been tricky to score against with Davies and Jagielka at the back, but in Dolan, Rothwell, Brereton and to an extent Gallagher, we've got the players who can cause problems for aging legs. 

Strikes me as a little strange that Nyambe is rated as touch and go for this one. All the talk last week that it was either 1) cramp or 2) a hamstring strain, which unless it was a very mild one would have kept him out of this one. Hopefully it's just Tony keeping his cards close to his chest. 

1 hour ago, El Tombro said:

Not for me. He would cost a fortune because he was an excellent player, not because he's an excellent manager. Derby fans wanted him gone well before any of this financial saga kicked in. I'd be interested to see how Cocu would do with another shot at this level though. He at least has some managerial pedigree to show for it.

Cocu would be a massive no from me. He seemed even more dogmatic on sticking to a style of play which wasn't working than Mowbray was last year. 

Rooney wouldn't be my first choice by any means, but his next job (assuming he'll be leaving Derby at some point in the next year or so, maybe much sooner) will be interesting. He still has the massive name behind him, and I think the general view is that he's done a pretty decent job under very, very difficult circumstances, but at the same time I can't see a premierleague club (or a well-resourced Championship team) being too fussed about him.

His wages might be dictated by the clubs that want him, and a club in our position might well be the best he can hope for.