Just now, oldjamfan1 said:

Possibly Bellamy?

Never get bored of talking about how good Bellamy was. Such a catalyst for our success over that 4 year period, never seen a desire to win like it.

Stead's another obvious one, but more for his hot patch rather than the mercurial ability of the other two.

34 minutes ago, rickard said:

That man was proper shite, wasn't he? Had a look at his wikipedia stats, according to that he's played 150 career games. For 11 different teams. Since 2006. 

Not great, it sounds like the record of the sort of goalkeeper who make careers out being reserves.

I was looking at Alex Manninger's wiki a few days ago, who was inexplicably still playing (sort of) until 2017. Over his career, he's had 5 clubs who he didn't even play for!

3 hours ago, Stuart said:

Agreed. Excellent points by both you and @OnePhilT - which I missed so thanks for quoting.

Halo effect: There seems to be an accepting of everything that the club does while Mowbray is here as positive and right, and anyone who questions anything as negative or irrational. There was a post from someone having a proper rant about the “over-reaction” to basically disappointment about us being “in talks” with a player who even when fully fit was useless. Something which is already contrary Mowbray’s close season rhetoric.

 

This is completely fair enough & I know I'm guilty of it.

Thing is though, the branch of social psychology which the halo effect comes from also finds the opposite mechanism to be true -  the 'forked tail' effect, whereby people who have a negative opinion of someone or something allow that view to spill over into viewing other aspects of them negatively. 

Trying to be reflexive about it, I know I've been overly defensive of TM when it comes to some of the individual decisions that he has made because I think overall he's been great. I also think TM critics have at times been guilty of the reverse though; don't like some aspect of his management, and that has spilled over into over-reactions about things which are either unrelated or not that important.

This is a really good case in point. I personally think it's a good thing that TM is the sort of manager which looks after players in Gladwin's position, but I know full well that if TM had decided to let him go as we all expected, I'd be backing him (in fact I'd probably not even give it a seconds thought). Equally, fans may think rightly or wrongly that TM has been too loyal in his selection of his favourites, and the fact that he's is keeping on Gladwin is demonstrative of why we always be hamstrung with Mowbray in charge because of his blind-spots (even though keeping on in injured player for a few months before letting them go has little bearing on how loyal he has been to players who actually get on the pitch, and doesn't point at all to how the rest of the summer is going to go recruitment-wise). Would TM have got the credit for being ruthless for letting Gladwin go (or Conway & the Canadian for that matter)? I doubt it. 

This obviously gets 10 times worse on a message board where people get even more entrenched in their positions, but I think the irrationality can be found across the piece, not just those of us who get starry eyed about the manager. 

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Yeah, but on his day in his prime this guy was top notch

So was Vogel in fairness. Probably just came to England a bit too late. 

39 minutes ago, Stuart said:

So which player has a song sung by his own fans about how shit he is?

”Good” is a subjective term. In football terms I view that as being very effective not necessarily their football skills. Smallwood was exactly that.

Think the 'Mokoena's going to break your legs' song had references to how he can't shoot or pass. In fairness, it didn't really catch on.

Just now, RoverCanada said:

I'd be curious if you have a link on that...

Both Swiss Ramble (https://twitter.com/swissramble/status/1105375506868957184?lang=en) and Price of Football (http://priceoffootball.com/aston-villa-2017-18-finances-and-ffp-doctoring-the-tardis/) recently wrote on AV's 17-18 finances, neither mention anything about fresh investment 'restarting the cycle', other than commenting that the new owners could boost commercial revenue. SR projects them to miss the FFP target by £25m, so... the new owners prevented them from falling into administration, but I don't see how it impacts FFP.

This was the last year of AV's parachute payments too, so hard to imagine they won't have to make some significant cuts in some capacity if they don't get promoted regardless. Their CEO's certainly consistently made noises about their confidence in meeting FFP, so could get interesting if they lose the final. If they get promoted, probably will descend into protracted negotiations with the EFL that will end in one of those relatively paltry fines, like Bournemouth.

(I'll be cheering for Derby )

 

Suppose the confidence may come from knowing they can generate plenty of cash from selling Grealish. That being said if they lose Abraham, Grealish & Mings and can't spend much of the Grealish money on strengthening the squad, then hard to see them as competitive as they were this year.

Apparently Woodgate is nailed on for the Boro job. Another untested manager in charge of a team hoping to go up, even for the Championship next year is looking ridiculously unpredictable. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48255942

Pulis gone

Just now, Scotland1 said:

I believe fresh investment starts the cycle again admiral I remember reading it at the time. They were seconds from administration and still have a wage bill of 65 million running at approx 35 mill of losses per year. 

Hopefully those sorts of sums will mean that there'll be some cost-cutting this season, FFP or not. 

Have to admit, I was going for Derby almost entirely because I thought Villa were the ones more likely to have their squad dismantled. I had no idea that the reverse was more likely.

In any case, it's not Leeds, so happy days. 

Just now, Scotland1 said:

Derby have to sell to avoid FFP I think the stadium sell will get reviewed there squad is average.

Villa despite the Xia era Sawis and co are treated as fresh meat in FFP so the 3 year clock starts again with a bloody good squad, maybe the best.

Villa for me any day.

Is this correct? Villa have another two years to basically throw as much money as they like before they face consequences?

Pretty galling if so, considering the dire straits they were on last summer. I had assumed that it was a temporary stay of execution, but I could be wrong. 

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

He isn't good enough for this league....how on earth is that burning bridges?

Not good enough to start every week for a team that goes up. Can still contribute as a squaddie and good influence on a young squad imo. 

1 minute ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Ive found cp company 

 

Hilarious. Worse than the scousers!

Really don't get that mentality. We could be 3 up going into injury time & I'd still half expect us to throw it away, let alone tempting fate with something like that.

Can't say I'd be at all happy if Gladwin is kept on, the others I'd be fine with so long as the contracts are low and we'd still be bringing in sufficient quality.

Just now, DE. said:

Villa v Leeds is the nightmare playoff final for me. Two teams I despise, one of whom has grossly overspent to the point of total financial meltdown and yet may be rewarded for it with promotion. 

Still, I suppose that if Leeds go up at least the Championship will stop being Leeds Utd TV for a season. 

It would be funnier if Leeds don't go up, but then again it's more likely that Villa will have to face the music if their gamble doesn't pay off this year.

Either way, come on Derby!

Massive summer for WBA coming up. Well paid, ageing squad who have relied heavily on some very successful loans this year (Gayle, Barnes, Holgate & Johansen). 

New manager coming in, likely cost cutting & unlikely to get as much form the loan market next term, they'll do well to be competing right at the top imo.

Never easy to predict these things, but I can see at least Fulham & Hudds not competing at the top out of the relegated teams. Also a good chance that WBA, Boro & Sheff Weds could go backwards for various reasons. I can see next season being even more open than this one. 

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

So back to the signings, of all the ones he's made one is a liability at LB (Bell), one is brilliant (Dack), one he only played because he was desperate (Rothwell) and another who blows hot and cold (AA). They are the only ones that get in the team.

Raya, Mulgrew, Lenihan, Nyambe, Bennett, Evans, Travis, Williams, Graham he inherited. Those are the players he picks the most besides Dack, AA and Bell.

Mogga has spent £10m+ and 2.5 years achieving that. 

The transfer market is not his strong point. 

£10 million plus which would be substantially improved upon if all of those players were sold though. Even if we treat Dack as a very successful anomaly which does a lot of the heavy lifting, we still have Rothwell & Armstrong who would go for substantially more than what we got them for. The long term value of BB is going to be a moot point for a while longer, but's not hard to see how the buttons that we apparently paid for Davenport & Chapman could be multiplied in future sales. 

Take the points that he's had some misses too. We'll de well to get the half a million or whatever it was for Samuel back, Whittingham was a massive disappointment and the less said about Gladwin the better. But even Hughes had Berner, Jeffers, Rigters & Vogel who didn't work out for whatever.

I think the test of his record should be in the quality of the team and the value of the squad, and you'd have to say that there's been a big improvement on both since he arrived, even accounting for what he's spent.

Just now, RoverKyle said:

I'm just playing devil's advocate. Although he was largely played out of position to be fair to him. 

In my head he isn't good enough for where we want to be though. 

I think you're probably right there. If Mowbray is really throwing sentiment to one side this summer, the likes of Smallwood and Samuel will be out of the door soon enough.

I agree that he has some pretty good aspects to his game. He'll never make a winger, but he does travel with the ball quite well. Above average pace & power, can finish when he's having a good day. Could feasibly by a championship starter one day, but not there yet sadly. Definitely needs a year or so playing consistently and staying injury free.

Funnily enough, I wouldn't be in a hurry to show most of our soon-to-be-squaddies the door unless they actively wanted to go, but I think Samuel is probably one that should be let go for his sake and ours. If we're playing one out and out striker, we have Graham, BB, Nutall,Samuel, Butterworth, almost certainly at least one addition going for one starting spot, and Armstrong has said that he wants to move there down the line too. Having samuel around will mean that either he literally won't get a kick, or would get in the place of one of the younger lads. Either way, I think it's the wrong call for both parties for him to stay, and would be damaging in a way that keeping Smallwood/Williams etc. wouldn't be in my view. 

34 minutes ago, RoverKyle said:

I don't know whether he's been out injured so long I've forgotten what he's like or whether this sun is getting to me, but couldn't a fit and firing Samuel come good for us next season..

When he first signed he looked quite clinical in front of goal and seemed to link up well with Dack. He seemed to play himself out of confidence after that, probably not helped by being shunted out wide. 

Don't know whether we're being a bit hasty writing him off already. As a side note, I've screamed from the terraces and at the tv at him more times than most I'm sure. 

I think his chance to show that he could step up was with the rest of the league one squad this year. Desperately unlucky that he picked up such a bad injury, and I wish him every success in future, but I don't think that he's shown enough to be a part of our plans going forward. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48230034 

Parker given the Fulham job.

If Rovers are looking to compete at the top end next season, I think this has to be seen as good news. This is such a difficult league to cut your teeth in. There are some qualified successes of first time managers, but not getting someone with a bit more experience is an early  mistake imo for a team that will be looking to go straight back up. 

12 hours ago, S8 & Blue said:

Comes down to this - 

Spurs winning pisses off Arsenal fans

vs

Liverpool winning pisses off Man U fans

Europa - 

Arsenal winning rubs it into Spurs fans 

vs

Chelsea winning pisses off everyone 

 

Liverpool and Arsenal please

Yes, but Spurs winning also pisses off Liverpool fans by leaving them potless despite having probably their best side in decades. Sadly it'll mean that United fans will have a brief smile on their faces, but that'll fade soon enough once they remember the state of their own team. Spurs winning means the optimum number of Sky clubs fans are left gloomy over the summer!

Totally with you on Chelsea getting beat, such a dislikeable club. 

9 hours ago, Fraserkirky said:

I will be sick if Conway gets another deal.

 

If he was offered buttons then I wouldn't be dead against it. He seems a good influence on a young squad, and not a bad option to have as a reserve in case of an injury crisis.

Biggest issue for me is that Conway as back up might mean more limited game time for Rankin-Costello or others, which can't be allowed to happen, but as a cheap reserve who may get a handful of run-outs over the season, we could do worse imo. 

Just now, Neal said:

We need an obvious upgrade IMO, else it's just wasted wages. 

If that's what we're going for, then Ruddy's CV would suggest he's exactly that.

Raya's a real conundrum for me. I fully expect him to have a really good career, but how patient can a club like us afford to be with a goalkeeper?

Would be a good signing, perhaps slightly too good to expect Raya to start off as number 1 if that's still Tony's plan,

Don't want to turn this into a pile on, but this argument is such a non-starter. We have the youngest Rovers squad in aeons. Mowbray has given debuts to at least half a dozen academy graduates over the last 2 years. Others have been given key roles when they were on the periphery. Almost all of his signings have been 24 or under, several significantly under. How many other managers have we had who have got anywhere near these sorts of stats? Some of the youngsters don't play every week, but that happens with almost all players who get near the first team at 18, 19, 20. 

Saying Mowbray isn't prioritising youth is absolutely bizarre. The evidence almost entirely points in the opposite direction. 

1 hour ago, davulsukur said:

Who owns Boltons stadium & training ground?

Potential sales? I'm guessing it would be an option to raise cash?

They will only have 9 contracted first teamers in July (or whenever it is contracts end)

I wish Bolton well in resolving their off the pitch situation (there but for the grace of God etc.) but once they go into administration, is there anything stopping someone buying the presumably profit-making hotel once they're administration?

Having a  Rovers themed hotel permanently attached to their ground is making me smile for some reason. 

Just now, Swanson said:

Yes I am pretty sure he was signed by Bowyer, did not have an impact at all. The only thing I remember him by is the header he should have scored, but put it in the crossbar instead. Haven't set the Turkish league alight either it seems..

Hit the bar a couple of times, as I recall. Didn't look all that dreadful as a free transfer, albeit with a very untidy first touch. Better option than Chris Brown anyway.