It's one thing, anyway, to say wingers are dead (don't buy it but hey). It's another thing to perpetually play people there who were never brought up to play in that whole area of the pitch. If you don't want the blood and thunder winger style fine, but you at least get specialists at whatever you DO want to play there.

Couldn't believe he gave that decision, cheap dive.

He will be 22 in February. If this is his level at this stage, you can only imagine we will never see him break into the first team here.

Maybe, but can't trust that paper. If I wrote with hindsight about that game on paper, the last 10 minutes alone would look something like this:

Looked like more than a knock to me. He was down.

No subs from us so far I believe? Against Derby I think we had made all our subs by this point of the game? I suppose we can't really bring anyone on as a 'defensive' reinforcement, and it likely wouldn't be prudent to switch it up and go attacking at this point.

Birmingham look set to end Leeds' unbeaten start. 2-0 up at Elland Road.

On that note, anyone know why Stoke were expecting their biggest crowd of the season against us? We're not the biggest draw, or with the largest travel contingent. Cheap tickets?

Very good question! How you go in with the most defensive lineup you can muster, away from home, no pace to catch them out on the counter attack, and are 2-0 up before half time against a traditionally defensively shrewd team, I don't know!!

Derby taking Brentford to pieces so far, 3-1. Looks like they might get the hiding we escaped.

Would love to ask that Stoke fan how well Ryan Woods is keeping the lid on Dack now!

I'm starting to really question some of Mowbray's signings this summer (albeit mostly ones I was questioning at the time). Not in terms of the player quality - far too early to decide that - but in terms of where we recruited and what types of players. We signed as attacking players: Armstrong, Brereton, Palmer, Rothwell. We signed to play in the defensive mid role: Reed, Rothwell (sometimes), Davenport (admittedly injured). Possibly that Lyons bloke. Yet we play Smallwood and Evans together basically every game (I think the cup games were the only exceptions?). The attacking players are increasingly struggling for game time - not a single one of the signings in that area is in the starting team today. The only player we have on the pitch who we didn't have last year is Reed, out of position. I don't understand why we collected all those defensive mids in particular since we wouldn't let Travis go out on loan either. Hopefully it works out today and hopefully it's just a specific approach for a specific game which will rarely if ever be repeated, but it is starting to make me wonder what Mowbray's vision really is. Not that I will care a jot if success comes.

In the Championship, if you sign a free agent after the loan window has closed, the only way you can play him before the next window opens is if his contract was ended before the loan window closed.

Probably by being a fantastic footballer. Possibly makes people a bit blind to the other stuff... Anyway, he doesn't seem like a bad apple sort in the sense of being an asshole or lacking commitment. It's his extra-curricular stuff that needs a lid putting on. Definitely got to be wondering what TM makes of all this. Could force us into accepting a lesser offer for him than we would like.

So this is for the same offence then, the police officer thing? Why would the club announce he had completed it, and it then be extended?

I definitely feel like our first game must be in Mordor. I also have images of our defensive mids intercepting the ball whilst shouting 'YOU SHALL NOT PASS!'

Even that article itself is confusing...offence in September, given a year-long order, completed by the time of the article, which was in April...is the one year just the time in which the 100 hrs had to be completed? No idea how I have only just heard about him attacking a police officer!

Cheers. I assume you mean Lyons, not Chappers?

There's been no noise since. I am presuming one of the following... 1) Didn't happen, either by being nonsense or broke down. 2) Still rattling on and isn't finalised. 3) Nobody cares enough to report it getting finished. Bit odd if it is 3, as we got reports of an 18 yr old for the development squad. A 21 year old for the development squad would presumably be closer to the first team, otherwise why bother at all? Not sure what you mean by Chapman connection.

Just wondered whether people wanted to move their inane arguments about Gardengate here instead of clogging the match thread with it.

We lost by a hefty 4 goals to 1 today. But after reading this thread, I can now rest assured that it was only because Bradley Dack crouched down in a garden late last night. This should be easy to remedy in future. We simply need to let our star player know that late-night garden-crouching can't happen in future, if he wants the team to win and himself to become a top-flight player. I'm sure he will be amenable, it can't be that hard to avoid. I've heard you can earn a lot more money playing football than crouching in gardens. He will either desist, or make sure there is no photographic evidence next time, and we will therefore drub Villa. Sorted.

We kick off in 10 mins and all anyone is talking about is this total non-event that we know very little about. Can we drop it? Or put it in the Bradley Dack topic ffs.

It's actually interesting, the huge changes of opinion on the window now the loan window has gone. Since the first deadline passed, we have added: Jack Rodwell (huge question marks) Harrison Reed (rated, but in a position we were already well stocked, albeit also extra cover at RB) Ben Brereton (very exciting, but unproven) Somehow this has pushed us from a mix of opinions (some thought it was decent already, some thought it was a bit poor and and some thought it was a disaster) to almost universal approval (albeit with some a bit concerned about depth for a couple positions). When you look at these three signings in isolation, I do wonder how some opinions have jumped so markedly. I can't help but think the emphatic Lincoln result with a largely second string and the sheer price of the Brereton deal have made everyone feel more confident. With Brereton, if we had bought the exact same player, with the same career so far, for 1 million, I'm sure there would be less euphoria. All that said, I do think it was a good window, as I said above. But I thought it was a fairly steady one before the loan window, and would be good as long as we got a reasonable strike option. Edit - and I'm not criticising anyone who has jumped from doom and gloom to ecstasy btw, just think it is interesting, psychologically speaking.

If we do a root cause analysis though...a big part of why clubs have priced tickets so high and have to grab at any television money is that vast swathes of income are drained by player wages, which itself is driven partly by player greed but mostly by agent greed. Clubs are in a peculiar position, where fan pressure to succeed and the financial structure and reality of the game means they have to take financial gambles, which means they have to recoup that money from fans and tv. It's all a bit of a loop, with fans (armchair and hardcore alike) getting milked for their cash in a huge exploitation of their passion, and the ultimate beneficiaries being players and agents. As it worsens, the risks and debts become greater and something has to give somewhere.

I'm curious Tony, how do you put this together? Do you somehow get a full video of the match to watch back and analyse? I don't think I could take notes of this detail in just one live viewing for a team I support!