That was kinda my point. Someone likely to be of no real use short term (or probably ever in Hart's case). Not a serious competition for left back, because TM doesn't think we need one. Personally I agree with him.

I can practically guarantee a left back isn't any sort of priority for TM though. He clearly rates Williams, and also brought in Bell in January for half a mill. There is almost no chance he moves for a specialist left back again (except maybe some cheap 18 yr old project). Maybe if he can't find a centre back for the right price and wants to play 3 centre backs, moving Williams inside, but I doubt he will be unable to find a centre back. Totally agree on the rest though.

On 35k a week, one thing the lad isn't is 'poor'!

No? Well you just wait til JAL posts!

Circa 1.5 in the summer, and about a half mill on Bell. 2 mill in league one....3 mill in the champs doesn't sound excitable to me.

Not remaining no, but in total we did. It's not like we only just started. It could be they won't fund him, we have certainly been there before, but all the ACTUAL indications from the club is that there is at least a little money to spend. The only indications we don't are actually just insinuations based on us not having done more business so far. How much money there is, is a different matter. Personally I suspect something like 3 million. Isn't it plausible that the reason for the slow movement is just that that isn't an awfully large budget for the champs anymore, and that we are ensuring we spend it wisely? If clubs raise their asking prices (looked like Charlton did this) or ask too much to begin with, shouldn't we be careful about meeting it? Especially since we all know the way the market works with fluctuating prices throughout, particularly with the trickle down effect from a world cup. I get why people are worried given the past, but we can be a little more patient. The next week or two will be telling, but even then it won't be over.

Come on Rev, you've surely seen many deals over the years, here and elsewhere, take weeks or months to be completed. We chased Rhodes for a long time, for just one example. These things don't just get done in a few days all the time. There are often long negotiation processes involved with the clubs and players, with everyone trying to get the best deal. I know this isn't news to you.

I feel like I've missed something, so correct me if I have...do you honestly think we're incapable of loaning youth players from Premier League clubs? We've been doing it for years. We loaned two last season in Payne and Armstrong, when we were in League One...why would we be unable to get them in the Championship with more revenue and prestige?

Hopefully they're wrong. We already have an inconsistent, injury prone centre mid called Evans. Good luck Joe!

Weren't we linked to Rothwell earlier this summer? I'm sure even the LT talked about our interest. So not completely out of the blue, just had gone quiet for a while.

Umm, we don't seem to be on that list. Or Rotherham. I guess only Wigan got promoted, ah well! (Might be the list is only showing clubs who have at least had an outgoing, and that just being released doesn't count?) I think we are going to regret letting Ohztuner sign for Bolton for free. Good deal for them. Would have been the best backup for Dack we could expect, and given the option of moving Dack back a little if we were short in centre mid at any point.

I can't see the logic in this line of argument though. If Pele, Maradona, or Zidane had come from Azerbaijan, do you think they would have lifted a World Cup? They would have been the exact same player. I fail to see how any player's career comes down to whether his TEAM managed to win one, very infrequently held tournament. It certainly helps, especially if they've been the driving force in such a win, but it isn't the be all and end all. I used to have what I feel was a very similar argument with my Arsenal-supporting friends. They reckoned Lehmann was a far better goalkeeper than Friedel, because of what he had won and how Friedel had won nothing. Would you agree with them? Perhaps you would, but at that time, with Lehmann dropping gaffs despite having less shots against him than Friedel, I thought they were mad to not want Friedel instead. David May won far more medals than Colin Hendry. Who was the better defender? You can never boil everything down to just trophies, because it's a team sport.

We've fallen way behind Burnley because of Chaddy's footballing IQ?! DAMN YOU CHADDY!!! Why did you have to go and sack Allardyce, hire Kean, marginalise John Williams and the board, sign Murphy and Etuhu, sell our best players for peanuts, keep Bowyer in charge for too long, fail to find a way around FFP and hire that charlatan Owen Coyle!?! You and your useless footballing IQ!

I imagine this idea comes more from his workrate and positional understanding than from any crunching tackles. His workrate isn't quite as beneficial as it used to be since his legs are going though. Personally I'm fine with having him as a squad fringe player as long as his new deal is hugely reduced. He isn't the fantastic player he was though, and I didn't expect us to offer him another contract. But if it's a far cheaper one year deal, and he isn't seen as anything more than backup, I'm ok with it.

Possibly, but I doubt it. I wouldn't have predicted us to go down if I was too far on the optimistic side I'd suggest! You did just admit to being pessimistic yourself, so maybe I look too optimistic as a result of that? I'm not generally known for my boundless optimism lol, I've been accused of being a negative person many, many times in my life. But I just call it how I see it. Not too worried about this season. I expect we might spend some little patches hovering around the relegation zone, but I do expect a roughly mid-table finish by the end.

Funny how differently people can see things. Obviously the transfer window has yet to pan out and will be key, but at the moment I'm expecting us to end the season somewhere around mid-table. If we assume we get at least Armstrong back, and make just a couple of decent signings, that is. The squad we finished the season with was far better than the one which got relegated, in my view. That, combined with the positive momentum at the club right now to hopefully get us off to a good start, and the fact that in our relegation season we had a thoroughly disenchanted fanbase, a horrendous manager for most of it and were still very unfortunate to go down, and I'm feeling fairly confident for the season. I've had a pretty good record predicting our seasons before they start lately...I predicted we would get relegated the season we got relegated, and my summer prediction for last season was 2nd place! Hopefully I get it right again...I also have a feeling we might surprise many and push in or around the playoffs, at least in patches, but that will largely depend on how stellar our business this summer is.

Wasn't saying he is, just that people were asking for an older player to disprove that they're all Murphys and Etuhus, and Mulgrew is a prime example. Most of us were hesitant about Mulgrew at the time. Sadly, Whittingham hasn't been up to much despite appearing an exciting signing for League One. Transfers can always go either way, even the ones which appear shocking or fantastic at first. But no, I wouldn't want Ireland anymore either.

Mulgrew

If he turns out to be a pointless signing, will that appease you?

There's a reason he wasn't appreciated at his 'hometown' club (he's from Wigan actually though). Go on, I'll let you figure it out. Take your time.

Don't worry, you also won't need to elucidate for those who are as intelligent and informed as you, but who do not believe in mystical celestial divinities - rendering the whole thing moot to them.

Who the hell is Platt? We need to stop including untested youth players in our summations, especially in positions where experience is essential like centre half. Ward is injury prone. Mulgrew is too. Lenihan and Mulgrew are actually natural midfielders, though both do play very well at CH. I'd consider those two the most likely candidates for last minute departures if that happens. I want to see us blood some youth in this league, but I also want to see us promoted!

He just wanted us to become crap enough that we would need him is all. Long term plan to become a Rover. True fan.

You're not very good then if that's all you sell for with all this money flying about.

Jesus, what are you even blathering about? He's only been coaching a few years and has purely trained kids for such footballing luminaries as St Kitts and Nevis, Latvia, and Taiwan!! Bowyer has coached our youth, been reserve manager, caretaker manager, and then full manager of Rovers. He also saved our pathetic hide last season. I can't tell if you're on the wind up, are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that somebody who has what, three years experience of coaching, none of it in the English game or even in any remotely top level league (or any league, it's all been international youth setups) is somebody that none of us would mind being appointed purely if he wasn't Indian? Besides, the talk isn't really about him being a youth coach, the rumour seems to be in a far more senior capacity.