I dont doubt that we have had injuries to deal with but im not sure we can mourn the first team loss of Vale and Butterworth considering that both have only ever played one dead rubber first team cameo each! Not sure that Bennett and Evans are significant losses either. Yesterdays squad was fairly strong with Dack, Travis, Douglas and Williams the obvious and main absentees. You look around the league and unfortunately it is par for the course. Thankfully we are on a good run of results at the moment though and that is what matters. With Brereton, Mowbray mentioned that it may be similar to Holtby and Travis so hopefully we will see him again well in advance of the season end, lets hope it is even less serious than those 2. I also do think it will be difficult to maintain a consistent and high level of performance amidst such an intense schedule so at least we know we can win games without playing well.

Not that I need to justify it but if I didnt enjoy wins no matter how they come about, ill stop following, and I certainly wouldnt have bought a season pass. It wasnt a good performance, I think most concede that including the manager post match, didnt make me any less elated when Armstrongs shot went in and when the full time whistle went after I had watched from behind my hands for 5 minutes with an elevated heart rate. Positives that I also touched on, Elliotts goal was superb and he was decent, Gallagher who I have criticised before I though was very useful, Lenihan who although deserved criticism at the start of the season I feel has not got the praise he deserved in recent weeks and was outstanding, Nyambe who we have to sign long term and Armstrong was a threat. So 5 positives and apparently 14 negatives all merely in the interest of discussion but all overshadowed by the result which seemingly doesnt mean as much as I think it does.

Every team is badly suffering with injuries at the moment, I think there are players maybe that can be trusted a bit more than others, not sure id be too confident with Dolan or Buckley starting whereas I think you could easily bring in a Downing and be comfortable, im glad he is back, he sprinted forward once like he is 10 years younger. Just have to hope that Armstrong is ok, he is the main one.

The performance was poor, very poor and we was very lucky but the key part of that was that "im very happy tonight because 3 points is all that matters." Would you disagree with any of my opinions?

Very poor performance, some very strange tactical decisions and a massive slice of luck with the deflection and the refereeing, they should have had a penalty but im very happy tonight because all that matters is three points. The experiment that Mowbray tried with his subs was totally bizarre and killed the momentum we were building. Gallagher was playing well. Buckley and Dolan made the wrong decision every single time and the change of system just didnt suit anyone. Hopefully one not to be repeated. The balance wasnt right with the starting 11 either. Bell was embarassing, if Douglas isnt fit on Saturday then play Downing there. Nyambe was very good and the centre backs were also chalk and cheese with Lenihan really hitting some good form whereas Ayala was shocking. In the midfield I just wish that Holtby would control games more than he does, gave the ball away a few times and rarely grabs a game by the scruff of the neck. Johnson also poor on the ball, Armstrong also a threat, Mowbray mentioned post match that he has a slight hip injury but we cant do without him.

Really poor performance so far, certainly not the first time this season that Mowbray has got the balance of the side wrong, often he has played a defensive midfielder too far forward, tonight there are too many attackers and not enough in midfield. They are targetting our left side and understandably as Bell is well short of the quality required. Ayala looks very rusty and has been all over the place as has Kaminskis kicking. Brereton and Johnson have been poor too. One bit of sublime quality from Elliott though. Maybe a night for Downing and Rothwell to give us some more balance. The crowd noise is awful and should be stopped. And the pitch is not taking the quantity of matches too well either. Commentary wasnt working so listened to the Millwall commentary team who are much better to be fair.

Not sure the balance is quite right or indeed that Elliott is a central player but it is a very attacking line up. Bell always a worry at left back. Should be enough to put Millwall away. Big boost for us that Cooper misses out for them.

Weve seen for 18 months that our pinnacle has been to get into a position whereby we can at least see ourselves as an outsider who could in theory with a run of wins (against logic of previous games) charge past a few times and sneak in overcoming a deficit without ever being a proper contender who do spend times in the top 6 places. Even this season we have been the same, win tonight and wed still be outside. It would boost confidence if we punched through and actually had the consistency to at least poke our head through and get into the top 6, even if for a while we got in, then fell out, then got back in etc. Until that happens it feels like de ja vu.

Its another flimsy argument. As you suggest, there was never an implication that we demanded a 7m instant success, the problem was that he wasnt even contributing even as a competent rotational player/back up, and he looked even worse than poor players like Samuel and Nuttall. To be quite honest, such expectations even putting the fee aside for a player who had played over 50 games for Forest were fairly modest, he never even showed signs.

I dont even understand why it is being assumed that Celina was on high wages, he signed for Swansea when they were keen to reduce their wage bill so it was very unlikely that he went there on considerable wages. Indeed we didnt need a number 10 anyway. Using the flex argument (even if we take it for granted that Breretons wages are not considerable, he wont be on peanuts either) to suggest that looking elsewhere may have meant that we couldnt have spent quite the same transfer fee, maybe thats got some logic in it. But lets not pretend that the finances used by Breretons fee and wages werent enough to start thinking about potential opportunity cost and alternative ways we could have spent it. No matter how it is spun, it was a big chunk of our resources.

Rafferty was banned at the weekend when they had no full backs at all but back today. No sooner is Davies back at CB and now Bauer is out for the season. The luxury of a fully fit squad will evade all teams this season.

The fee does play apart but even without it, he wasnt looking any better than poor players like Nuttall and Samuel.

So could I flip that and say that because he is not Alan Shearer, Chris Sutton, Matt Jansen, Roque Santa Cruz, Craig Bellamy, Jordan Rhodes, that I am not happy with a player? A reasonable standard to expect lies in between expensive mercenary and brilliant player. No one has made a direct comparison to Leon Best regarding poor application/effort, and indeed I think that at times his effort and work rate did appear to be below the player we see this season charging around everywhere. The judgement does not come from where the player comes from, indeed every signing is a risk and the manager has to try and manage and calculate that risk with the resources available and is open for judgement both positive and negative dependant on the success of that player. At the time of the end of the second season, it was very difficult to make a constructive case as to the potential he had, indeed some of the most optimistic posters on here were regularly critical of the signing. If your mentality with a young player is either to praise or withhold judgement that is fair enough but if a player does not appear to be showing much ability or quality then of course I suspect you will be in the minority in withholding judgement indefinitely. I feel like quite ironically in the last few pages of this thread, widespread praise and optimism is now being drowned out by a need to revert back to prior to this season when Brereton was not doing so well and needlessly bringing up online criticism that was justified in most minds and making out that the fans were unnecessarily harsh to him, werent supporting him etc and it is a narrative that will probably provoke a lot of people.

Fair point. I must say that watching Rovers beat Preston in front of an empty stadium watching on a laptop screen, I was made up and very happy of course but at the same time I was a bit gutted not to be there.

It isnt black or white but equally, you are using extreme examples again when we know that there are good players out there. I am not under the delusion that is is easy to build a good team but a manager puts himself into a position whereby he will accept that he is judged dependant on their success. Dack and Armstrong, especially the former were signed for really low fees compared to what they have given us. Fair play to Mowbray there. Brereton had minimal impact even had he cost much less than he did, as an individual based on all we could judge him on, it was natural to feel disappointed. If you could remove yourself enough to totally withhold any judgement whatsoever then fair play to you. The fact that he cost 7m means that even if it wasnt as simple as us going and signing a Bamford (random example of higher earner for a similar fee when we signed Brereton) etc because I appreciate that such a player was unobtainable, but it is not being unrealistic and I refuse to accept that, from a position say this summer just gone before this season in which we undoubtedly have seen a different Brereton, that we couldnt have spent that amount of money more efficiently and more effectively. Even if that was within this unsubstantiated theory in which we could only sign a young English attacker. the fact that it is difficult to sign players within certain parameters and in a competitive market is not enough to absolve a professional football manager of any responsibility/debate/criticism should a player seem to be a poor acquisition, which he did when you refer back to the timing of the comments. And I dont think that even the most positive supporter could claim to have seen his performances this season coming, even if like yourself they withheld judgement. Playing devils advocate, if Armstrong ran his contract down and left on a free with us in the same League, which is not totally beyond possibility with 18 months left. Would he be deemed a poor signing considering what would have been a fruitless investment, and thus should we withhold judgement on him until he leaves?

Again I am not really comfortable with changing the team too much to try and counter the opposition or indeed the stereotype of an opposition or making individual selections, but I think that Johnson and Gallagher may come in more based on their individual performances, Trybull has possibly not done enough to guarantee a start over the previously impressive Johnson upon his return whilst Elliott has been quieter recently although even when he is quiet he seems to regularly make a very good pass a game (Dolans goal v Preston and Armstrong v Barnsley) in the build up to a goal. But Gallagher is deserving of a start I would suggest. Wharton may be very unlucky as his 4 starts were very good, but you would imagine that Ayala will be in the team for good (until his next injury) if he regains his place tomorrow, rather than keeping Wharton's place warm. We have had a situation at centre back whereby a selection headache seems to always be avoided, one centre back gets injured whilst another returns, usually between Ayala, Lenihan and Williams before Wharton had a chance to prove that he was a fourth competent option there. Bell being selected is not ideal, but the cost of Douglas worsening his injury and having Bell in the side for a run of games would be worse.

The flex thing has been done to death, its all speculation, we dont know for sure what Brereton's wages are. The key though is that the only alternative is not a 3.5m high earning 28/29 year old. Leon Best was a particularly horrendous way to spend money, he would have been a crap signing had he been a freebie on a modest wage. I would like to think that our standards are above displaying more value for money than Leon Best. His appearances were never within a run of starts mainly because in those cameos he didnt do anything to suggest that he warranted a prolonged run in the team, and even then, Mowbray received plenty of criticism for how he was being used. He may have been written off as a current day judgement back when he had shown nothing by that point, compounded by other flaws in the team not being rectified, but ultimately being "written off" doesnt mean anything because now that he has suddenly come to the party, this thread is absolutely full of praise and optimism from even his most staunch critics from his first 2 seasons. All that refraining from committing to an opinion in 2 years (which is a decent portion of time) does is allow you not to be proved wrong.

So as far as you are concerned, should a player thread not be opened until a player hits x number of starts? People will judge a player on an ongoing basis, you mention the usage of him but that was a regular criticism of the manager rather than the player himself. The financial side is all guestimates but using Leon Best as a benchmark is hardly productive!

The initial theory was that Brereton wasnt a Mowbray signing if I recall. But even if on "inside direct lines" we take on board the theory that Mowbray had a seperate kitty for a young English striker with value, Brereton even within that remit demonstrated no hope for 2 years that he was even a successful signing amidst those restrictions. Even now, making a profit on 7m would require a lot more from him, but for those years those theoretical requirements still didnt justify why Brereton had been chosen. Its a messageboard to give opinions and it was very fair to question the money spent prior without feeling the need to refrain in case he turns it all around, otherwise this thread may aswell have ceased to exist. Not sure there is scope for any "I told you so" either. People judged on what they saw, individually there wasnt really any flickers never mind signs that he could come good, and the defence was leaking goals when people felt that we could have spent the money or at least some of the money there instead. If the above theory is accurate for which there is no proof, then that would be a poor reflection of the owners and the way the club rather than the manager. I dont think anything in his first 2 seasons suggested even getting to performances anything like of which we have seen this season, whereby his improvement has been an unexpected positive hence why this thread has recently been littered with us all praising him and rightly so. Lets hope he continues to improve and people can focus on the player rather than looking back and picking out critics throughout the last 2 years.

One thing that I will say as well is that whether its positive or negative, praise or criticism, once we get to the point where especially on a messageboard but even down the pub or even in the ground with our friends/family we cant give our opinions without sanitising them first (no negative opinions allowed) then surely we give up with the game as a whole? If a Rovers player plays well, we get excited, if a Rovers player doesnt play well, we get frustrated. Natural. No one is condoning a minority of dickheads that you will get everywhere shouting abuse but I can honestly say that I have never at numerous away games and every home game heard anything of this nature, clearly I am not the only one, not saying it doesnt happen but it cant be that widespread. This thread is full of criticism is because, both as a purchase financially and also moreso as an individual player, for 2 years his performances were terrible, not expecting the end product is one thing but there was barely a glimmer of optimism and indeed even his application was questionable at times. This became a place to moan and groan and vent, and a much more constructive one. Now his performances have massively improved, this is a place full of praise and full of optimism. Criticising a player on a messageboard is NOT abuse.

Totally agree that unavailability can often lead to a downturn in results too. Indeed Norwich's injury list was so bad that they had one senior player on the bench, a young midfielder at left back, a midfielder up front etc and in normal circumstances a draw at home to Coventry would be a major frustration. Watfords manager said that he was purposely playing a specific and more pragmatic way I think at the time when he didnt really have an out and out striker so it affects even the bigger squads and is widespread across the league. However I sense that judging our side when everyone is fit or indeed for any Championship side may be a scenario that doesnt unfold this season.

Any talk of relegation is undoubtedly illogical and seemingly from a minority, no disagreements here on that! Warnock certainly hasnt had a clean bill of health himself at Boro although of course he hasnt had the resources and the time to build a squad as Mowbray has done here. I think there were 2 games in which the unavailability list was especially troublesome. Forest at home although half of the absentees were players not registered in time or considered to be signed in time by the manager, and the 11 we named was very competitive, and that Boro game on Sky especially with Kaminski and Armstrong being the 2 particularly notable absentees, although the replacements where Pears who he paid a fee for this summer and 12m worth of firepower up top. As ive said, our absentee list over the season is perhaps above average but I just think it is important to appreciate that others have had numerous absentees and at times have left them with no senior options in certain positions, something we seem to have avoided in the main. Lets hope that over time others are affected more than us and our key players stay fit for the most part though. I am wary of falling into a "judge us when we have our best team available" mentality as quite simply I do not see any teams having a full clean bill of health for anything other than a fleeting moment this season, with covid drop outs and the massively increased intensity of the fixture list. When Dack and Travis are back, a couple of others will likely be out by then.

I have never doubted that we have probably suffered more than most with injuries, and like the manager and everyone else it is a big source of frustration for me, of course. It is not me just saying that it shouldnt affect us at all or indeed that we should ignore it, of course not. Its just that we have also been in a similar league position that we have flickered between for 18 months now, hovering from anywhere between one win away from the top 6 and mid table mediocrity, so I struggle to lump all/too much of the blame on the idea that injuries are costing us from being in the top 6. I feel that such a theory is lacking any real justification. Its a big question mark. I would concede that there was one or two games in which the number of injuries was particularly and abnormally serious, I think it was the Forest game in which we had to put Brennan on the bench to make the numbers up. But it is also important to realise that we are not the anomaly in the league, quite a few teams have suffered mass unavailability, I think as much from the increased quantity of matches in a short space of time. There are also a couple of caveats for me. The likes of Ayala and Douglas were signed (and Evans renewed) by Mowbray knowing that both players have suffered from injury problems in the past. Obviously I am not implying that we shouldnt have signed them but how much can you put it down to misfortune? I also think we would have been in a much worse situation had the injuries been focused in specific areas, it may be partly down to the benefit of Mowbray having the time and comparative resources to build a deeper squad on paper than many but you look at Norwich having to play a midfielder up front and solely kids on the bench, Preston had all 4 full backs out on Saturday and had to totally change shape to try and fail to cover that fact, thankfully we havent had as much of a specific area that has been totally ravaged. But yeah, I do of course sympathise with the injuries we have suffered, I just am keen to also add to the context of others suffering in similar or at times even worse ways and also I am unsure how much we can put not being in the top 6 down to unavailability.

The injuries will keep coming I am sure, they will to all teams, of course we need to manage and use the squad as best we can but we need to make sure that we dont use them as excuses.

They are only one point below us so if anyone considers them to be dire then they cant think much of us either.