I am not convinced that you have to state in advance something contrary to the manager in order to be able to criticise him anyway. If Mowbray does something wrong, we criticise him as a manager, not as a direct comparison to ourselves.

We might have a good relationship with them but that isnt proof. Within hours of the rumour coming out, he had gone to Belgium. Surely they would have preferred him to come here with our strong relationship if the interest was so strong? I think the fact that Kaminski seems such a considered deal that had been extensively scouted and that it has been repeatedly reported that our number 1 was always going to be coming from abroad perhaps suggests that the rumour that a deal for Iversen was close was not factual. It didnt make sense at the time and even less so now.

Absolute rubbish. I remember there being plenty of alarm bells raised about the length of Mulgrew's contract. Smallwood already had a further year, there was no rush to renew. With Bennett, I think I was one of the exceptions in not being convinced. There was also Evans which received criticism because it was coupled with the first of Waggotts passive aggressive marketing campaign, a season ticket advert with the punchline "Corry has committed, have you?" Possibly the funniest, I will give him that. Regarding the ones last year, universal criticism.

What about dishing out contracts to Mulgrew for 3 years, Bennett, Smallwood etc as "rewards" for getting us promoted without the foresight to see that we would be lumbered with them? Or giving Smallwood, Hart etc extensions when the club has no income and they didnt even get onto a 9 man bench? Not good financially for a club on a budget. We tend to sell players just before their contracts end to be fair, I remember that happening with Marshall but you often dont get the fee you could have received otherwise.

A 12 month option in the clubs favour if fairly commonplace now. Yeah, unless we go up we might only have another few months of enjoying him and Armstrong play in blue and white.

I know it isnt the same manager but surely you can understand why people are sceptical when players are "about to sign new deals" considering how we have dealt with contracts, notably Hoilett "within 24 hours." I wouldnt stretch to the lengths that it is all a ploy although if the player had said he was leaving, Mowbray wouldnt publically declare it anyway. I am not confident regarding the contractual issues. I would be pleasantly surprised if Nyambe doesnt run down his contract, and if Lenihan and especially Dack and Armstrong extend their contracts to prevent an inevitable sale next summer.

Good that both new goalkeepers signed from other European shores can both speak good English.

He did also say earlier than Ben Whiteman's brother who "works at BAE" told him that he is about to sign for us

There definitely is a feel that this season will be the last in the current cycle before we might see a bit of change. The contracts are the big red flag. Nyambe's contract is up at the end of this season, and then we will only get a training fee should he stay in England. Armstrong, Dack and Lenihan will all have a year left I think. I dont think any of those players will be rushing to sign new deals, nor is it in their best interest to do anything other than sit and wait for now and keep the power in their hands. I would love to be wrong. Rankin Costello, Holtby, Johnson, Evans, Rothwell, Williams, Chapman, Mulgrew, Bell and Bennett all have only this year left on their contracts too, of course many of them either will definitely not warrant a new deal (the last 3 for example) and a few others are very much ones that could go either way. I suspect that next summer is going to be one of upheaval should we not go up, and that potentially would be the point when Mowbray's job would naturally come into question at the start of a new cycle.

Yeah, im just not sure when it became one or the other!

Seems that Whiteman can sit in midfield next to Gorrin.

And Big Sam as the best England manager of all time.

Tangible evidence would always be difficult when comparing managers, its very much opinion based. The win % from different clubs etc are meaningless. Hughton got promoted at Newcastle, got Birmingham into the play offs, and got Brighton up(and kept them up). 3 Championship jobs, success across the board. I say that without discrediting Mowbray in any way, or calling for his head. Totally agree.

I dont understand how a conversation developing about a manager who many have said they would like here in the past and is relevant due to him being appointed by our next opponent is "working to find negativity."

Fair enough chaddy. Youve literally ignored my point and gone off again on numerous random and irrelevant tangents so lets leave it there.

Again, missing the point. Youve taken the conversation on a typical random tangent. My point was that at this stage, based on the signings made and presumed as per Joe's post, that it is far too early to call it our best window at the moment, its totally unknown. Most hadnt heard of Kaminski, decent start so scope for promise. Ayala has played 1 and is the only one that we could really judge prior to arrival. This Greek fella is a total unknown. The left back is an unknown to most and the loan wasnt even specified. My point was that at this stage, if thats our window business, we cant yet say how this window has been. We dont know if the scouting to bring in players from europe has been a success or failure so how can we yet focus on "how good" it has been, as if its as sure as that? We have room for promise but its not been a success (or indeed a failure) at this point. Im not sure how to be fair. The 2 have had totally different careers, different clubs, different budgets, different lengths of careers. None of those stats are worthwhile either way in comparing the 2 as managers. Although stick a couple of patronising emojis on the end and thats obviously a gamechanger.

His Championship record is very good, a proven track record. I think in the Premier League it is a little bit too far for him but in fairness, they stayed up and Potter hasnt tangibly improved them in the table but is lucky to have the reputation of a youthful, forward thinking coach when indeed they havent really tangibly improved under him. Whereas Hughton is a more old school and has the temerity to not even get defenders like Dunk, Webster and when they had him Duffy to pass it out from the back. Thats the modern fad.

Not relevant to the point I was making regarding it being too early. Spending money on improved scouting infrastructure is a positive move. But it doesnt mean that there is no risk of signing poor players.

I definitely dont think you can use win percentages as a tool. Managers all have their own unique CV in terms of the teams they have managed, the resources they have had etc. You can never make like for like comparisons.

Very good choice by Forest. Still, we should be looking to win at home to them. We are 6th, theyve lost every game, their squad is massively overloaded with defensive midfielders, lets get the win.

I agree that permanent signings are preferable any day. But surely its not just that, its no use if they turned out crap! Walton permanently wouldnt be positive. One is totally unknown to everyone. On Kaminski we have a bit more knowledge and a start of 5 games that can make is very optimistic. The one im excited about is Ayala still. Hes one that we know what we are getting, well almost certain.

My point was more that at this stage we dont necessarily know that whilst the spots may have been filled, or hypothetically in your scenario, we dont know yet if they are going to fill them adequately. The main one who we can be surest of based on knowledge is Ayala. Kaminski is still in the questionable stage, I dont mean that negatively, but hes only played 5 games in which hes had barely anything to do. What he has done has looked good so promising signs there. The sub keeper, yes hes permanent, but none of us have ever heard of him! Only a select few have of the LB, with mixed reviews, and the loan is unnamed. Dolan, a very bright bonus ball but again so early. Its not me criticising the summer business you mention, its just that especially signing players from abroad, we have no idea of their success. I think that all of Mowbrays main transfer windows have been mixed. His main success has been more the use of the players he already had, especially in the promotion season or indeed youngsters, Travis being the best recent example. Spending 5m on Gallagher massively tarnishes last summer. So does the goalkeeping debarcle. Holtby and Johnson didnt have particularly impressive seasons either, but may come good a year later. At the moment, they are under ok. Downing and Adarabioyo for a year were very shrewd. So a mix. Summer before, another disaster in Brereton. Davenport hasnt started a game, failure. Rothwell has flattered to deceive throughout, at best hes in the middle. Armstrong has turned into a bargain. Reed a good loan albeit misused, Palmer an awful one. So mixed. And as you say, the one prior promotion, like the one the following year had a bargain, brilliant signing. Also Smallwood was very good for a year. Lots of poor signings otherwise, Samuel at 500k, Gladwin, Hart, Caddis etc. I mainly took issue to concluding so soon that the window was the best whe its so early and players we had never heard of who have not played are included in such a statement. Wasnt that only said by chief wind up merchant Mercer?

The majority of recent windows have included big blunders so I suppose the benchmark is low, but that is a big statement. Kaminski is still an unknown, very early days, hes not had loads to do but in the main has looked good so far. Ayala a big coup, the kid as back up goalkeeper we are totally in the dark about, and again we dont know much about that Aleesami or indeed an unknown loan. Especially on the back of some unknowns from Europe, it is impossible to judge at this stage.

Yep, signed but it wont come of anything any time soon sadly.

Yep, very much a box ticked more than anything to get excited about. Unlikely to play but hopefully a talent for the future as well as competent back up. Like everyone else, not the foggiest who he is but hopefully a gem. Left back please, and ideally someone for the wide areas.